BPR Mailing List Digest: 03/21/01

Philologos
BPR Mailing List Digest
March 21, 2001

Digest Home | 2001 | March, 2001

To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bprlist] How the egg came to symbolize Easter
From: Syksteven
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:03:40 EST

In a message dated 3/21/01 9:11:50 AM, owner-bpr@philologos.org writes:

<< This verse seems to imply that God doesn't like to be worshipped in
certain
ways. This brings me to the question: Does it matter HOW we worship God
or is simply worshipping Him enough?

Excellent point, I couldn't agree more.

Just wanted to say thank you to all that have responded to my enquiry. I have
tried to send a thank you note to each of you privately also. Sorry if I
missed anyone.

I learned long ago that rarely can anyone be "argued" into accepting a
position, especially in religious matters. I just wanted to understand how
others saw this issue. I was surprised to see the majority seem to see it as
I do, I was expecting just the opposite.
That is indeed encouraging to me.

GOD bless you all, and many thanks,

Steven Sykes

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======= To: bprlist bprlist <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [bprlist] Muslim destroyers reach for the heart of Jewish holy sites
From: Shophar_Sho_Good
Date: 19 Mar 2001 12:19:40 EST

Muslim destroyers reach for the heart of Jewish holy sites

By Lachlan Shaw in Jerusalem

http://www.smh.com.au/news/0103/19/world/world10.html

The destruction by the Taliban of the two ancient Buddhist statues in
Afghanistan reaches across into the Middle East and touches the heart of the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

As the Taliban were blowing up the relics of Buddhism, leading Israeli
figures were trying to stop Muslims from destroying archaeological treasures
dating back 3,000 years in Jerusalem.

It was a fatwa - a religious ruling binding on Muslims - issued by the
Taliban which called on the faithful to tear down Buddhist statues. It was
through a fatwa that the Mufti of Jerusalem just a few weeks ago laid claim to
the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, sacred to Jews.

The Taliban and the Palestinian Muslims share the belief that all that went
before the rise of Islam 1,400 years ago is valueless and an affront to Islam.
The decision to destroy the giant Buddha statues in Afghanistan was taken not
by one remote leader, but by 400 clerics after months of solemn debate. Some
opposed the move, but, once the consensus was reached, all swung their support
behind it.

The Jerusalem Mufti said all the stones of the Western Wall belonged to the
Muslims and had no link to Jewish history.

The fatwa in Jerusalem was issued as Israeli archaeologists, historians,
writers and others increased a campaign to stop the Mufti's organisation,
known as the Wakf, from destroying the site. So vast are the depths of the
grounds beneath the Temple Mount that archaeologists are thought to have
barely scratched the surface.

The Jews call it the Temple Mount because they believe it is where King
Solomon built the First Temple, which was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, and
where the Second Temple was built and then destroyed by the Romans in AD70.

Muslims call it the Haram al-Sharif (Noble Sanctuary), and believe it is the
place where their Prophet and founder, Mohammed, rose up to heaven to meet
God.

In his fatwa, the mufti, Sheikh Ekrima Sa'id Sabri, said the entire area of
the Temple Mount belonged to the Wakf. That included the Western Wall, which
he said was the supporting wall of the Al-Aqsa mosque, sacred to Muslims.

The Wakf also owned treasures of the site to a depth of seven stories below
and a height of seven stories above, he said. This was his answer to Jews who
say the Muslims are causing enormous damage to the antiquities of the Temple
Mount.

A group of Israelis, including a former mayor of Jerusalem, Mr Teddy Kollek, a
former mayor of Tel Aviv, Mr Shlomo Lahat, the author Amos Oz, generals,
academics and archaeologists, have a petition before the High Court of
Justice.

The group says that 15,000 cubic metres of debris and earth saturated with
archaeological artefacts from every era has been carried away in trucks over
the past few years.

The petition says: "Rare archaeological artefacts are being cursorily
destroyed by the giant scale activities of the Muslim Wakf and the Islamic
movement of Israel, the aim of which is to turn the entire site into an
exclusively Muslim holy place.''

The Wakf is believed to have built a large mosque under the ground and to be
working on new entrances and places of worship.

The petitioners want the court to tell the Government to stop the Wakf from
any work unless it is approved by government officials.

Nothing epitomises more clearly the dilemmas faced by the Palestinian
leader, Mr Yasser Arafat, and Israel's Prime Minister, Mr Ariel Sharon, than
the debate over this territory.

The issue of the Western Wall, an expanse of giant stones built by King
Herod before the birth of Christ, destroyed the Camp David peace talks last
July. Mr Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount was widely blamed for the
present conflict.

At Camp David Mr Arafat would not, or could not, agree to the Jews having
sovereignty over the Temple Mount and keeping the Western Wall under their
control.

The mufti, appointed by Mr Arafat, has given a fatwa that commands Muslims
in such a way that no compromise over the Wall is possible.

Any move by the Israelis to assert authority over the mufti, the Wakf, the
wall and the Temple Mount would provoke yet more violence.

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======= To: bprlist bprlist <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [bprlist] NATIVITY SIGNALS DEEP ROOTS FOR CHRISTIANITY IN CHINA
From: Shophar_Sho_Good
Date: 19 Mar 2001 12:22:24 EST

NATIVITY SIGNALS DEEP ROOTS FOR CHRISTIANITY IN CHINA
AS EARLY AS THE 8TH CENTURY, TAOISTS AND CHRISTIANS STUDIED SIDE BY SIDE IN
A PAGODA AT XIAN, A BRITISH SCHOLAR SAYS.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/printedition/article/0,2669,SAV-010318021
5,FF.html

By Michael A. Lev
Tribune Foreign Correspondent
March 18, 2001
XIAN, China -- Ignored for centuries, a crumbling 1,200-year-old pagoda on
the windswept hillside of a Tao monastery near this ancient capital city has
yielded remarkable evidence of a thriving Christian community during the Tang
dynasty, suggesting that East and West came together in China earlier and much
more intimately than has been recognized.

Found on a shadowy wall of the leaning tower, the proof is the remnant of a
nativity scene, made from wood and plaster circa A.D. 780, that combines
Chinese landscape imagery with the reclining figure of the Madonna,
according to the British scholar who found it.

The discovery of what would be by far the oldest Christian site in China
opens a window on religious and art history, confirming what had only been
known by analyzing ancient texts: That Christian missionaries first came
along the Silk Road to China more than a millennium ago.

The nativity scene also raises a provocative question about Christianity's
roots in China and the troubled relationship between the church and the
Communist Party today.

China's government equates Christianity with colonialism and is deeply
mistrustful of its ambitions. But the scholar says that if an 8th Century
Tang dynasty emperor permitted a Christian community to operate within the
confines of an important Taoist monastery located near its capital, then
Christianity achieved official recognition and legitimacy in China centuries
before Western European missionaries arrived en masse.

"What it means in religious and political terms is this: Christianity can no
longer be labeled as an imperialist, foreign import never ever taken
seriously in China," said Martin Palmer, the British scholar who found the
site.

"The old claims of Christianity as an alien religion will have to be
modified," he said. "Although it will have only mild impact at first, it
means that contemporary Christianity has a pedigree, whereas before it was
nothing more than a running dog of imperialism."

Palmer discovered the site nearly two years ago, but he is only beginning to
publicize what he found on the second floor of a pagoda that had been
neglected since an earthquake in 1556 blocked access to the interior.

Few Asian and religious history scholars know of Palmer's discovery or feel
ready to comment on it. Those who have heard the news are excited and say a
major historical site has been found that adds texture to the past and a layer
of intrigue to the present.

While the discovery does not change the known chronology of when Christians
first entered China, it calls for a reinterpretation of the relationship
because of the close ties apparently forged between Christian Nestorian
missionaries from the Middle East and the Tang dynasty, said Gail Larminaux of
the Silk Road project at UNESCO in Paris.

"Sending missionaries through China is one thing," said Larminaux. "To
establish a monastery or some kind of Nestorian establishment so near a
royal city gives it a completely different dimension."

China's 5,000-year-old culture is exceedingly rich, and the area around
Xian, the ancient capital, is the cradle of Chinese civilization. It was
here that China's first emperor, who died in 210 B.C., protected his grand
tomb with the magnificent terra cotta army.

When Christian missionaries first arrived in 625, Xian--known then as
Chang'an--was the Tang dynasty capital, possibly the largest city in the
world and a cosmopolitan meeting point for international traders and
wanderers at the Eastern terminus of the Silk Road.

Christian scholars knew that Nestorian missionaries, representing an Eastern
branch of the church that later faded, were part of the mix in Chang'an
because of a descriptive diary-like stone tablet that was found in 1623 and
recorded the history of 7th Century Christian travelers.

But Palmer and other scholars said their knowledge of the Nestorians was
limited because there was no surviving physical evidence of their
activities.

Palmer, an author and expert on ancient Chinese texts, hoped to find one of
the churches and was amazed not only to discover a site, but also to
identify the remains of a remarkable nativity scene mixing Christian and
Chinese imagery in a pagoda on the grounds of a famous Tao monastery.

As he interprets it, a Christian community of scholars studied next to and
interacted with the leading scholars of Taoism with the emperor's
permission.

"They obviously were placed there to have that dialogue," Palmer said. "The
extent to which Christians were deliberately put into the very intellectual
and spiritual heart of Tang dynasty religion is astonishing."

Annette Juliano, an art historian at Rutgers University who studies the Silk
Road, said the nativity scene is an important find that reflects
Christianity's acceptance within the rich melting pot of cultures in the
Tang era, though it might be a leap in logic to argue that the Nestorians
gave Christianity legitimate roots in Chinese culture.

"It may have had more impact than we realize, but what happened to it after
Tang?" she said.

In fact, the early Christian influence in China apparently ended in 845,
soon after the pagoda was built, when the Tang dynasty turned against
religion, destroying Buddhist temples, defrocking monks and perhaps
attacking the Christian community. The nativity scene at some point was
vandalized. The Nestorians and their church of the east also faded away.

Palmer, head of the Manchester, England-based Alliance of Religions and
Conservation, picked up the trail of the Nestorians by studying Christian
texts of the era.

The next important clue in his search came from an obscure book written in
the 1930s by a Chinese professor and containing a curious hand-drawn map
that referred to a pagoda as Da Qin, which means "from the west," or can
refer to the Roman Empire.

The pagoda's location was depicted inaccurately, probably because the map
was created by Japanese spies charting the area in code, Palmer believes.
But he recognized another name on the map: Lou Guan Tai, an ancient Taoist
monastery where legend says famous monk Lao Tzu wrote his classic work "The
Book of the Way of Virtue."

History runs so deep in the Chinese countryside that when Palmer arrived at
Lou Guan Tai, local legend confirmed he was searching the right area. An old
amulet-seller told him the pagoda centuries ago had been used by the Buddhists
and before them the Taoists. Earlier still, the seller said,
meaning in the 7th Century, the pagoda was used by "men from the West who
believed in one God."

Climbing the hillside for a panoramic view, Palmer recognized an important
fact: The landscape around the pagoda was not cut in a north-south
direction, as the Chinese built their temples. The terraces here ran
east-west, toward the rising sun, in the Christian tradition.

It took another year to arrange to enter the shuttered pagoda, where Palmer
finally found himself standing before his grail, an ancient Christian shrine
in China.

While badly eroded, the towering wall sculpture is clearly not a Chinese
creation but a fascinating meld of Eastern and Western spirituality.

Posed beneath a depiction of the Five Sacred Mountains of Taoism is a figure
set in a cave that Palmer identifies as the Madonna. Though only the torso and
legs remain, the body reclines in a relaxed pose wearing flowing Greek-style
clothes. It is a style unknown in Chinese religious art, but identical to
depictions of Mary in Christian Orthodox iconography.

The cave setting is another major clue. Unlike in the Western tradition, the
Orthodox church sets the story of Christ's birth in a cave rather than a
stable. When Palmer studied the sculpture he detected the outline of a child
figure and a vacant spot where the star of Bethlehem may once have been
positioned.

Palmer and a small group of researchers and conservationists say they hope
to find more details of the history of early Christians when they open a
crypt underneath the pagoda, with the cooperation of the Chinese government.
His group is raising money for the effort through the China Heritage Arts
Foundation in Hong Kong, and there are plans being discussed for the creation
of a museum and research center.

"It really is a unique opportunity," Palmer said. "We already know that what
we have here is an example of the fusion between Western art and Eastern art.
One of the only other places in the world where that exists is Afghanistan,
and that has been blown up," he said, referring to the recent destruction of
artifacts by the militant Islamic regime.

"What we are looking at is probably one of the last remaining sites where
Western and Eastern art met, fused and created something exclusive," he
said.

____________________________________________________________________
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======= To: messynews@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] The Hand of God
From: Stafford's Mail <simmonds@freeuk.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:36:49 GMT

Today's Jerry Golden "REPORT". Blessings Stafford

P.O. Box 591
Bet Shemesh 99100 Israel
http://thegoldenreport.com
jerry@urbis.net.il

Once again the Hand of God was on us, on our return home from a
Jerusalem meeting we were missed by seconds at most a minute or two by
a terrorist bullet. Some where behind us on the south end of Jerusalem
a Terrorist killed another Israeli. When we arrived home we heard the
news on the TV that he was killed on the same highway we just drove
over. On that highway it is necessary to drive within shooting
distance of many Arab homes in Bet Jalla. The Tanzim take over these
homes and attack Israelis driving on the same highway that was built
so they could have control of their cities, called appropriately a
bypass. These same bypasses around Israel have become death to many
Israelis over the past 6 months.

Connie and I grieve for the one killed today by the Palestinians, but
we must also thank God for his protection over us.

In the Jewish Settlement of Nahal Oz, in the northern part of the
Negev Desert south of the Gaza Strip, the Palestinians sent three
Mortar shells into this village today. What makes this so dangerous is
this is the first time they have shelled in side the green line
(Israel proper).

Israel knows Arafat is trying to cause a confrontation and escalation
in violence before the Arab Summit in Jordan next week. The question
is how much can Israel take, or how many Jewish lives can be lost
before we accommodate him? The Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer
says he knows how to differentiate between those who are guilty of
such crimes and those who are not. Well that sounds good to the rest
of the world but to us here in Israel, it isn't enough to say such
clever things. We must see something concrete on the ground and
quickly, we are being killed daily and the world news media CNN & BBC
still are painting us as the bad guys.

There are three main roads that lead from Jerusalem to Tel-Aviv, the
Tunnel Road (where I've been shot at twice) the Moidim Road and the
main highway #1. Today the only safe way is #1 and you have never seen
such a traffic jam for over 3- miles. Simply because everyone is
frightened to use the other roads. In all my years in Israel I have
never seen Israelis frightened to drive on their own roads before.

Today in the Jerusalem Post we seen pictures of forth graders learning
how to hold a grenade, the same article shows 10 and 12 year old boys
marching in the streets of Nablus with assault rifles, even younger
being carried on the shoulders of their fathers holding the rifles.
Does sound like a people who want peace with their Jewish neighbors?
It told of us of 10 and 12 year old boys in white uniforms with hoods
covering their faces, and fake bombs strapped to their bodies,
teaching them to die for Ala is good, to kill the Jews is good. That
one must be willing to commit suicide if necessary. This is what they
teach in their grade schools. How do you make peace with such a people?

I just posted an article I wrote on Jihad on the web site
http://thegoldenreport.com I would like for you to read it, if you
haven't already. Go to the Special Report section and you will find it.
Shalom, Jerry Golden

><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Stafford's Mail <staffordsimmonds@ntlworld.com>

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======= To: bprlist <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [bprlist] Fwd: 2 Articles: The Killing of Baruch Cohen // A Wake-Up Call for American Jewry
From: "Patt A."
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:11:57 -0800 (PST)

Hebron <hebron@hebron.org.il> wrote:
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:37:07 +0200
To: hebron_today@hebron.org.il
From: Hebron
Subject: 2 Articles: The Killing of Baruch Cohen // A Wake-Up Call for
American Jewry

2 Articles:
The Killing of Baruch Cohen by Harvey Tannenbaum - Efrat
A Wake-Up Call For American Jewry by Michael Freund
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Killing of Baruch Cohen
by Harvey Tannenbaum

This morning, Baruch Cohen went to minyan in Efrat at his usual Vatikin
time. The father of 6, grandfather of 11, aged 59 did his usual morning
ritual of blessing the Jews of Efrat via his lineage of Birkat Kohanim.
Baruch is the first word of our blessings and this Baruch gave blessings
daily. As he left Efrat in the early daylight hour enroute to his work in
Jerusalem, he did not realize that his last bracha and priestly blessing had
just been recited. As he passed the Neveh Daniel junction on the
Gush=Jerusalem road, a car of Arab animal murderers drove by and sprayed his
car with 12bullets. Baruch was hit, lost control and drove into the
oncoming semi-trailer, dying instantly.

Baruch Cohen Z"L was the recipient of the latest Jewish guilt trip of re
opening their(Arab) roads, cities, and villages. Only last night did the
new Minister of Defense Ben Eliezer re open the access to and from the
'unfortunate' sieged Arab cities. For 2weeks, we had some' peace' and
quiet, now we had pieces of Baruch's body and another funeral to plan in
Efrat. The terrorists escaped to Bethlehem, passing the PLO(police)sic?
checkpoint which allowed more murderers to escape into their protective
areas after the killing of a Jew.

Amnon Cohen, Baruch's son is an IDF lieutenant general in charge of the
Hebron area security. His beeper went off and was told of a drive by
shooting on the Gush road. He instructed his troops to seal off the area
and he drove to the shooting area. From a distance he saw the familiar
Hyundai vehicle where a father years ago had taught him how to drive. Upon
seeing the car and his dead father, the IDF lieutenant general, Amnon did
kriyah of his uniform instead of reporting the incident. He handed over the
investigation to the next in command and began to weep on the road, not what
his soldiers ever expected to see in their commanding officer.

The roads were closed, the city of Efrat turned into a morning of mourning.
The Cohen house 1 block away from me was packed with IDF, police, the
rabbis, and outside the pregnant daughter of Baruch Z"L was placed into a
wheelchair as she nears her 8th month of pregnancy. The latest survivor of
a drive by shooting, Ronnie Diament of Efrat who was shot at and survived
last month was just awoken after last night's seudat hodaya, dinner of
gratitude to G=d, where he was toasted in a lechayim by Baruch at the
synagogue.

Ronnie was interviewed on Israel radio for most part of the afternoon and in
a breaking and haltering voice tried to repeat the blessing and the words of
his friend Baruch last night as they sang and rejoiced together for Ronnie's
discharge from Hadassah only 24 hours ago.

Today Ronnie was a pallbearer for Baruch. As we watched the thousands line
the street of the synagogue where Baruch gave his blessings daily and then
the car procession down the same road of the Gush to Jerusalem and the
hundreds of cars enroute to Har Menuchot where Baruch would receive the
kaddish blessings of his sons instead of the birkat kohanim, the noises of
tears and silence could be heard.
The entire procession stopped on the highway where only hours before Baruch
and his blessings were extinguished by the animal murderers of the PLO.

Friends, our collective guilt and worries about the well being of the masses
of PLO residents outweighs the worries for our own fellow Jewish survival in
our land of Israel. The politicians gave their advice and the best one
perhaps, is that the IDF be allowed to use its helicopters not to bomb the
innocent but to drop food and medicines daily with CNN filming it live over
the Arab villages while continuing the siege and blockades for months on our
neighbors, the Arab 'peace'? partners.

As the antitank missiles hit last night at Nachal Oz beyond the green line
and as Baruch Cohen's fresh grave remind us that it was only yesterday that
rocks and stones shattered our lives, we now realize that this CNN labeled
'intifada' has been replaced by the warzone.

To all of the other Kohanim out there, the big blessing of Yevarchecha and
Yishmerach etc....only ends with the word of Shalom when we realize that the
death of another Kohen today in Israel will strengthen our resolve and with
G-d's intervention, the birkat kohanim of Baruch Cohen shall once again be
recited very soon.

Hashem Yikam Damam
Harvey Tannenbaum
Kohen
Efrat, A City in Mourning

=====================================================

The Jerusalem Post, March 14, 2001

A Wake-Up Call For American Jewry

By Michael Freund

For a community among the most active and generous in the world, American
Jewry has been surprisingly placid in recent months regarding the
Palestinian wave of terror against Israelis. One would have expected that
the daily shootings, stabbings and stonings would have evoked an outpouring
of support for the beleaguered targets of the violence. But thus far,
little succor has been forthcoming.

Sure, solidarity visits to Israel have been organized, rallies were
convened in major cities, and letters to the editor have been written. Such
activities are, of course, important. They impact public opinion and
demonstrate that American Jews stand by Israel in her time of need. But
very little of the sympathy from abroad has been directed specifically at
the Jews living in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, who have borne the brunt of
much of the violence.

I am not a "settler", nor do I live in the territories. But I have friends
and relatives who do, and their lives have been dramatically altered in
recent months. What were once routine trips to and from work have become
far more dangerous. Family and acquaintances hesitate to visit and the
roads after dark have taken on an air of peril. The fear of being shot or
stoned has become palpable, and the psychological impact on children and
adults alike is immense.

Residents of the Gaza community of Netzarim were forced to spend Purim eve
in bomb shelters after their Palestinian neighbors attacked them with
mortar shells. For others, warnings of impending attacks cast heavy shadows
of solemnity over the traditional holiday feast.

If a Jewish community anywhere else in the world were subjected to similar
assaults, there is no doubt that American Jewry would be in an uproar. But
for some reason, the suffering and pain of the settlers goes unheeded.
Emergency appeals have not been launched on their behalf, nor have public
gatherings been convened to show support for them.

I would like to believe that politics does not have a role to play in this.
I would like to think that when a Jew cries out for help, American Jewish
organizations do not check his home address before deciding whether or not
to assist him. Perhaps it is simply due to a lack of awareness. After all,
the settlers are about as popular in the American media as Mad Cow disease,
and they are given little chance to convey their point of view.

But let there be no mistake about the severity of the situation. Jewish
communities throughout Judea, Samaria and Gaza are in desperate need of
assistance to purchase items ranging from bulletproof vehicles and
night-vision equipment to pagers, binoculars and defibrillators. The
Israeli army does the best it can, but it can not be everywhere at all
times. Hence, the communities themselves must often play a role in
enhancing their own security.

In times of crisis, American Jewry generally has a stellar track record of
getting involved. Within three days of the January 13 earthquake in El
Salvador, American Jewish organizations had set up a fund for the victims,
organized a coalition to raise awareness, and formulated plans to send a
team to evaluate the victims' needs. Oddly enough, after six months of
violence and terror, the Jews of Judea, Samaria and Gaza are still waiting
for their brethren in America to demonstrate a similar level of concern for
them.

Whatever one's views are regarding the settlements in Judea, Samaria and
Gaza, the Jews of these areas are Jews, and the proper Jewish response is
to assist them in their time of need. American Jewish organizations should
launch a massive fundraising appeal to help Jewish residents of the
territories improve their security. Even relatively modest sums might make
a difference by enabling them to purchase much-needed equipment.

Jewish communities in America should consider organizing "twinning"
programs with Jewish settlements to strengthen the ties between American
Jewry and Israelis and provide them with a much-needed morale boost. Funds
should also be directed to assisting families whose loved ones have been
killed in terrorist attacks.

When bullets are flying in Israel, American Jews must lay aside their
political differences and focus on what is truly important: saving precious
Jewish lives. The time to do so is now.

-----------------------------------

The writer served as Deputy Director of Communications & Policy Planning in
the Prime Minister's Office from 1996 to 1999.

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======= To: David Elphick <elphick@gohip.com>
Subject: [bprlist] Princes of Daniel
From: Pam
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:34:03 -0500

Dear David:

First things first. Very happy to have the news of Matthew�s health.
Like may others we have been praying for him and for your family and
thank the Lord for answered prayer. Praise the Lord!
-----
Thank you for your word study . It was most interesting.

Daniel 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth
of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah
the *Naw-gheed* shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the
street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." 26
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not
for himself: and the people of the *naw-gheed* that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a
flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

With respect to the term ‘Naw-gheed� you make the following comment:

"Note that where the prince is not of God, as in Daniel 11:18, but is
still of a god, the word 'qatsiyn' is used. If Daniel 9:26's reference
to a prince or ruler was different to that used in 9:25, then I would
expect ‘qatsiyn� to be used."

Your comment is well taken but I note that in the phrase ‘the Messiah
the Nawgheed� you use the capital ‘N� whereas in the second reference to
‘naw-gheed� you use the lower case ‘n�. Since I think the second
‘naw-gheed� will be the ‘false Christ� of the end times, I can relate to
this difference but wonder if it was so indicated as a result of your
study?
-----
With respect to Daniel 12:11 you make the following comment:

"Daniel 12 then goes on to describe that, following the end of this
final incarnation of Herod Agrippa (to use a name), that there is to be
a time of tribulation followed by the resurrection of the dead and that
the end will come 1200 days [I think you meant 1,290 days] after the
setting up of the abomination that maketh desolate." Daniel 12:11 -
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
hundred and ninety days."

As I think you know, David, I am of the opinion that the abomination
will not set up until 1,290 days AFTER the daily sacrifice is taken
away. Further, I do not think the end will come at the end of the 1,290
days but sometime during the succeeding 45 days. As Daniel 12:12 tells
us: "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three
hundred and five and thirty days." These days appear, to me, to be a
continuation of the 1,290 days and I think they are echoed in Rev.
16:15: "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and
keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." The
seventh vial is then poured out (Rev. 16:16) and I think those who are
to enter the millennium in their natural state will be ‘clothed� with
the belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Those who reject Him
will not be ‘clothed�, they will be naked, and the shame of their
rejection of Jesus as the Son of God will be evident to all. Praise the
Lord!
-----
Finally, I have not really tried to identify the ‘abomination� of
Daniel 12:11. I do not think those who are living at the time it is set
up will have any difficulty identifying it. God willing, none of us
will be in that number. Praise the Lord!

God Bless you and yours. Charlie Baker.

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] [Fwd: response to Charlie and new information on the seventh king]
From: "David
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:01:37 -0800

>To: bakerpj
>From: elphick
>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:00:43
>Subject: response to Charlie and new information on the seventh king
>
>Hello Charlie,
>Thanks for the comments re Matthew.
>
>The reason naw-gheed was capitalised was due to the search and replace programme. It retained the capital P and made it a capital N.
>
>Of course 1290 days was meant.
>
>You are welcome to have your opinions on what is to be. Daniel 12 is blatantly clear that after the abomination is set up there will be 1290 days. If you want to hold to your own opinion, do so.
>
>I have made a mistake though. I said that there has been no king since Herod Agrippa I. I am coming to the conclusion that the king who was attacked by the ships of Chittim has been and gone. He is described thusly:
>
>11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
>30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do;
>
>Now who in history was beaten back by the ships of Chittim? I think I know, and it wasn't Napoleon.
>
>When he returns he will be the eighth king and he will be the final king.
>>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:34:03 -0500
>>From: Pam Baker
>>To: David Elphick <elphick@gohip.com>
>>CC: <bprlist@egroups.com>
>>Subject: Princes of Daniel
>>
>>Dear David:
>>
>> First things first. Very happy to have the news of Matthew�s health.
>>Like may others we have been praying for him and for your family and
>>thank the Lord for answered prayer. Praise the Lord!
>>-----
>> Thank you for your word study . It was most interesting.
>>
>>Daniel 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth
>>of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah
>>the *Naw-gheed* shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the
>>street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." 26
>>"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not
>>for himself: and the people of the *naw-gheed* that shall come shall
>>destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a
>>flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
>>
>> With respect to the term ‘Naw-gheed� you make the following comment:
>>
>>"Note that where the prince is not of God, as in Daniel 11:18, but is
>>still of a god, the word 'qatsiyn' is used. If Daniel 9:26's reference
>>to a prince or ruler was different to that used in 9:25, then I would
>>expect ‘qatsiyn� to be used."
>>
>> Your comment is well taken but I note that in the phrase ‘the Messiah
>>the Nawgheed� you use the capital ‘N� whereas in the second reference to
>>‘naw-gheed� you use the lower case ‘n�. Since I think the second
>>‘naw-gheed� will be the ‘false Christ� of the end times, I can relate to
>>this difference but wonder if it was so indicated as a result of your
>>study?
>>-----
>> With respect to Daniel 12:11 you make the following comment:
>>
>>"Daniel 12 then goes on to describe that, following the end of this
>>final incarnation of Herod Agrippa (to use a name), that there is to be
>>a time of tribulation followed by the resurrection of the dead and that
>>the end will come 1200 days [I think you meant 1,290 days] after the
>>setting up of the abomination that maketh desolate." Daniel 12:11 -
>>"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
>>abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
>>hundred and ninety days."
>>
>> As I think you know, David, I am of the opinion that the abomination
>>will not set up until 1,290 days AFTER the daily sacrifice is taken
>>away. Further, I do not think the end will come at the end of the 1,290
>>days but sometime during the succeeding 45 days. As Daniel 12:12 tells
>>us: "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three
>>hundred and five and thirty days." These days appear, to me, to be a
>>continuation of the 1,290 days and I think they are echoed in Rev.
>>16:15: "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and
>>keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." The
>>seventh vial is then poured out (Rev. 16:16) and I think those who are
>>to enter the millennium in their natural state will be ‘clothed� with
>>the belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Those who reject Him
>>will not be ‘clothed�, they will be naked, and the shame of their
>>rejection of Jesus as the Son of God will be evident to all. Praise the
>>Lord!
>>-----
>> Finally, I have not really tried to identify the ‘abomination� of
>>Daniel 12:11. I do not think those who are living at the time it is set
>>up will have any difficulty identifying it. God willing, none of us
>>will be in that number. Praise the Lord!
>>
>>God Bless you and yours. Charlie Baker.

------------------------------------------------------------
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======= To: <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [bprlist] italy poised to order out chip based id cards
From: "Vaughan275"
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:12:50 -0800

Mountains by H. Leung Stationery from StationeryCentral

              A Quick Hello From Michelle

        SCAN THIS NEWS
        3.17.2001
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Katherine A.
        Italy Poised To Roll Out Chip-Based ID Cards
        Source:
        http://www.eventshome.com/Manual/manualpage.asp?manualId=2653&type=6&parentI
        d=5428&eventId=7145#Bulletin8
        [Coming to a police state near you very soon]
        The Italian government plans to start a rollout of chip-based citizen ID
        cards in 2002, following pilots in about 100 cities and towns, according to
        reports. Public Administration Minister Franco Bassanini earlier this month
        reportedly confirmed the Italian government planned to go ahead with the
        smart card project, which would replace paper ID cards Italian citizens
        carry. The cards will not only store citizenship data, which cardholders
        will use to do business with municipalities and federal agencies, but are
        also expected to absorb Italy's nascent chip-based health card. It means
        the ID would also store insurance and some medical information, say
        potential vendors on the project. Card readers are to be installed at
        public offices and in mobile units, such as police vehicles. Later, the
        cards likely would also store digital certificates, which would allow
        citizens to digitally sign government documents on the Internet. Besides
        the chips, the ID cards being tested also carry about 1 megabyte of optical
        memory, which store digitized versions of cardholder photographs on the
        front of the cards. This memory could also store other large files,
        including digitized fingerprints. About 100,000 cards are in the field, but
        at present are little used, sources tell Card Technology. (2/15)
        (News item from http://www.ct-ctst.com/ aka Card Technology News)
        ______________________________________

                  Download your FREE personalized Stationery now from StationeryCentral.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Mir Could Spin out of Control in Week if not Destroyed
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:39:43 -0500

Mir Could Spin out of Control in Week if not Destroyed

MOSCOW, Mar 19, 2001 -- (Agence France Presse) Russian mission
control prepared Monday to set a definitive timing for the destruction of the
Mir space station amid concern that it could spin out of control within a week
and crash to Earth.

After the latest in a series of delays, the 15-year-old orbiter is now expected
to be ditched in the Pacific Ocean early on Friday, 24 hours later than the
"time window" announced last week.

Originally planned for February 27-28, but postponed repeatedly because of
technical breakdowns, the operation to bring Mir down to Earth has been put
off course because the orbiter is descending at a slower speed than space
experts calculated.

However, if the Pacific splashdown is delayed until after March 26, Mir could
drop to a critical altitude, re-entering the Earth's atmosphere unguided and
with unpredictable consequences, ground control warned.

"If the operation is not launched (before then), Mir will fall by itself," Russian
mission control (TsUP) official Viktor Blagov told AFP.

TsUP said Saturday it was now 80 percent certain that debris from the
orbiter would splash down into the Pacific Ocean on Friday morning Moscow
time at around 0600 GMT.

The descent will be triggered when Mir reaches an altitude of 220 kilometers
(130 miles) -- it was at 230 kilometers on Sunday -- when the Progress cargo
ship's rocket engine will fire three short bursts.

The first two are to correct Mir's orbit, and the third is to send it plunging into
the ocean between New Zealand and Chile.

Several governments have expressed concern that the space station might
miss its target, noting the long series of technical problems on board Mir in
the past few months.

In December, Russia's control center lost contact with Mir for almost 24
hours, triggering widespread alarm at the possible security threat if such a
communication breakdown recurred during the re-entry operation.

Most of the station is expected to break up and burn as it hurtles through the
Earth's atmosphere.

But around 20 tons of the platform's 137-ton mass are expected to survive
the burn-up, with 1,500 pieces of debris, mostly very small but a few of them
as large as a car, falling to Earth.

Debris is expected to rain down on the South Pacific in a target area 200
kilometers (120 miles) wide, and 6,000 kilometers long, between New
Zealand and Chile.

The Russian space center has taken out insurance for 200 million dollars to
cover possible damage.

The pioneering Soviet-era space station, launched in 1986, is being brought
to Earth since Russia has found that it is unable to finance its commitment
both to Mir and to the 16-nation International Space Station. ((c) 2001
Agence France Presse)

http://www.russiatoday.com/news.php3?id=314123

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Peres: PA knew of attacks, Israel must respond
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:42:42 -0500

March 19, 2001 13:38 (Israel time)

Peres: PA knew of attacks, Israel must respond

By Amos Harel, Nadav Shragai, and Daniel Sobelman, Ha'aretz
Correspondents

Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, acting prime minister during the Washington
visit of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, said the drive-by killing of an Israe li
motorist Monday and the overnight shelling of Israeli territory from the Ga za
Strip could not have been accomplished without the knowledge of the
Palestinian Authority, and that Israel would have to respond.

"We view these two incidents with great gravity. This is something that
cannot be carried out without the authoritative body, Palestinian officiald om,
being aware of it, and we expect it to take the necessary steps in order th at
this not recur. We are not pressing for any escalation, but of course, we
cannot remain without a response."

Peres told reporters, "We are appealing to the Palestinian leadership, to
other leaders as well, to the entire region and to Europe, to ask that all
measures be taken to prevent deterioration that is unnecessary." First and
foremost, he continued, "We want to see if the Palestinian authorities take
steps by themselves. In my view, this is the preferable thing. After that, we
shall see." Peres said he would be in contact with the leaders of the
Palestinian Authority in the course of the day.

With Sharon holding talks with administration officials in Washington over a
new peace initiative, Peres said "This journey truly represents an attempt to
build a 'takeoff runway' for peace. This runway cannot be full of bumps,
shells, and nails."

http://www2.haaretz.co.il/breaking-news/peace_process/357660.stm

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Powell delivers stern warning to Russia, Iran
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:44:01 -0500

Monday, March 19 11:37 PM SGT

Powell delivers stern warning to Russia, Iran

WASHINGTON, March 19 (AFP) -

US Secretary of State Colin Powell delivered a stern warning to Russia and
Iran Monday, putting both nations on notice that the United States was
watching their actions closely and would respond should they make moves
that could destabilize the Middle East.

In an address before the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, Powell
said Washington would not turn a blind eye to repression by Tehran or arms
sales by Moscow to the Islamic Republic.

The secretary said while President George W. Bush's administration was
reviewing its policy toward Iran, it was troubled by Tehran's continued support
for terrorism, opposition to Middle East peace efforts and its treatment of
minorities, particularly Jews.

"It is apparent that certain aspects of Iranian government behavior ... are of
deep concern," Powell said, adding that Iranian Jews had been "unfairly
charged and harshly imprisoned" in a series of recent criminal cases.

"This is of deep concern to the United States and to the American people,
and we will not turn aside and ignore this kind of behavior," he said to
enthusiastic applause from the pro-Israel crowd attending the speech.

At the same time, Powell said the Bush team was intrigued by recent events
in Iran that indicated a resurgence of moderate sentiment against the
conservative Islamic government.

"We are aware of the intellectual and political foment taking place within
Iran," he said. "Things are happening, things are changing and we will
continue to watch these developments closely and hopefully."

Powell also picked up on heavy criticism of Russia levelled by US officials
last week after Moscow announced plans to boost military and nuclear
cooperation with Iran.

"We are also concerned about Iranian efforts to develop weapons of mass
destruction and to increase its conventional military strength," he said,
noting that he had raised the issue in meetings with Russian officials,
including Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov and national security advisor Sergei
Ivanov.

"I have gone so far as to raise with senior Russian officials the role that
Russia is playing in these dangerous and destabilizing efforts," Powell said.
"We will not overlook what Russia is doing to cause this sort of problem."

Washington has warned Moscow that it may face US sanctions should it sell
advanced conventional weapons or sensitive technology to Tehran.

Russia has dismissed the US concerns saying any weapons sales to Iran
will be defensive in nature, will not violate non-proliferation agreements and
will not affect the balance of power in the Middle East.

http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/article.html?s=asia/headline
s/010319/world/afp/Powell_delivers_stern_warning_to_Russia__Iran.html

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] German armed forces ban MS software, citing NSA snooping
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:48:16 -0500

German armed forces ban MS software, citing NSA snooping
By: John Lettice
Posted: 17/03/2001 at 18:59 GMT

The German foreign office and Bundeswehr are pulling the plugs on Microsoft
software, citing security concerns, according to the German news magazine
Der Spiegel. Spiegel claims that German security authorities suspect that
the US National Security Agency (NSA) has 'back door' access to Microsoft
source code, and can therefore easily read the Federal Republic's deepest
secrets.

The Bundeswehr will no longer use American software (we surmise this
includes Larry and Scott as well) on computers used in sensitive areas. The
German foreign office has meanwhile put plans for videoconferencing with its
overseas embassies on hold, for similar reasons. Under secretary of state
Gunter Pleuger is said by Spiegel to have discovered that "for technical
reasons" the satellite service that was to be used was routed via Denver,
Colorado.

According to a colleague of Pleuger's this meant that the German foreign
services "might as well hold our conferences directly in Langley." We're not
entirely sure whose interesting video conferencing via satellite service has a
vital groundstation in Denver, but we note that Pleuger seems to have
gleaned this information from a presentation held earlier this month in Berlin
by, er, Deutsche Telekom.

Which just happens, along with Siemens, to have picked up the gig. The two
companies have supplanted Microsoft (and anything else American) and will
be producing a secure, home-grown system that the German military can be
confident in.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/17679.html

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======= To: bprlist <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [bprlist] Fwd: Ezekiel 38
From: "Patt A."
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:19:23 -0800 (PST)

Koenig's International News <bill@watch.org> wrote:
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:01:36 -0600
From: "Koenig's International News"
To: watch-news@watch.org
Subject: Ezekiel 38

Ezekiel 38 - Bill Koenig

March 18, 2001

How might current events play out in the Middle East during the
coming months? Following, for your consideration, are some
different scenarios to compliment my "Middle East: Bottom Line"
Commentary from earlier this past week.

The signing of a peace treaty between the Israelis and the
Palestinians seems very unlikely because, in reality, any
resolution comes down to the status of Jerusalem and the Temple
Mount sovereignty, the issues over which the talks broke off late
last year.

The same prediction goes for the talks between Israel and Syria,
which also broke off over possession of a few meters of Golan
Heights land along the eastern shoreline of the Sea of Galilee.

So what will produce a peace treaty? Will it be a miracle "peace
deal," introduced by a world leader according to Daniel 9:27? Or
will it be a major military victory by Israel, so devastating the
Arabs say, "OK, we will agree?"

Would that major victory be the Biblical Gog and Magog war?

Or could the peace deal be initiated by the destruction of
Damascus, as foretold in Isaiah 17:1? (Note: This event could also
happen as part of the Gog and Magog war or perhaps even another
military skirmish.)

The key scripture that could give us a clue to the timing lies in
Ezekiel 38:14, which talks of a time of safety in Israel before the
Gog and Magog war.

Ezekiel 38:14 (NIV)=97"Therefore, son of man prophesy and say to Gog:
This is what the Sovereign Lord says in that day, when my people
Israel are living in safety, will you not take notice of it?"

Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke of a time of
peace when he was in office, yet many prophecy people don't believe
this is the peace spoken of in Ezekiel. That type of peace seems to
be the peace that would come with a formal agreement between the
Israelis and the Arabs either after a major and decisive victory or
after a world leader comes with a plan to which both sides would
agree.

So in all likelihood, the Gog and Magog war will occur in Israel
after the Daniel 9:27 treaty is manifested. Russia is currently and
actively reestablishing military agreements with Arab nations so
the extra time will meet their prophetic role more effectively in
the Middle East. Just last week a joint Russian and Iranian
military and business agreement was revealed.

With that in mind, I think the Isaiah 17:1 destruction of Damascus
could be the most likely event leading to a peace treaty. It would
be so devastating the Arabs would say, "enough is enough," and
"lets give peace a try," only to side with Russia later on in the
Gog and Magog war. At that time, the world leader would comes to
the peace table with the Daniel 9:27 solution.

Perhaps we could get a more diplomatic replacement for Yasser
Arafat, one who could work out a deal with the Israelis. However,
the key stumbling issues remain the status of Jerusalem and the
Temple Mount sovereignty issue.

Moreover, we continue to hear that no Arab leader will be able to
physically survive the rage of his own people if any deal is signed
without possession of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount being part of
it.

KEY SCRIPTURES

Ezekiel 38:8 (NIV)=97"After many days you will be called to arms. In
future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war,
whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of
Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out
from the nations, and now all of them live in safety."

1 Thessalonians 5:3 (NIV)=97"While people are saying, "Peace and
safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on
a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."

THE TIMING OF GOG AND MAGOG

Biblical scholars are divided into three predominant scenarios
about the timing of Gog and Magog war. In addition, the second
group has four schools of thought about the timing of when this
event would occur during the seven-year tribulation period.

Scenario 1: This group believes the war happens before the Daniel
9:27 treaty is confirmed and that it would be the catalyst for the
treaty's approval. However, in this scenario, there is not really
the time of peace (safety) in Israel before the Gog and Magog war
spoken about in Ezekiel 38:14. Some in this group believe that
there has already been peace in Israel and that the Gog and Magog
war could break out at any time.

Scenario 2: This group believes there has not been a time of peace
(safety) as spoken of in Ezekiel 38:14. This time of peace and
safety likely would come only after the confirmation of the Daniel
9:27 agreement.

Some of this group believe Gog and Magog will happen in the first
year or two of the final seven-year Tribulation period. Others
believe it will take place toward the end of the first three and
one-half years. Still others believe it will happen in the middle
of the final three and one-half years, while a final group believe
it will occur toward the latter half of the seven-year period, just
before Armageddon.

Scenario 3: This very small third group believes that the Gog and
Magog war is that mentioned in Revelation 20:8, taking place after
Christ's thousand-year reign in the New Jerusalem.

However, in this scenario, it looks as if Gog and Magog symbolize
the forces of evil, and we must remember that Gog is a human
leader.

Additionally, the war in Revelation 20 is followed immediately by
the destruction of the earth and the creation of a new heaven and
new earth, while in Ezekiel, life goes on for months as people bury
the dead. Additionally, the Revelation 20 war has to do with
Jerusalem, while Gog and Magog have to do with Israel.

----

COMMENTARY ON EZEKIEL 38:7-23

Following is a verse-by-verse presentation of Ezekiel 38:7-23 from
the King James Version, with my comments following the bullets.

"7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy
company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto
them. 8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years
thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword,
and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of
Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out
of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them."

=B7 Israel was brought back from desolation. The residents came from
many places, and the land was waste. But Israel came forth out of
many nations, and they shall all dwell safely.

=B7 At first, the residents were not prepared militarily to defend
themselves, but they certainly are now.

"9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a
cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people
with thee."

=B7 The attackers of Israel did come in great numbers. At times,
they looked just like "a cloud that covered the land."

"10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at
the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think
an evil thought: 11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of
unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell
safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars
nor gates,"

=B7 What people are living in unwalled villages, not suspecting war
and living in peace? The people of Israel certainly don't live in
peace currently. There is a heightened state of alert with the
communities fortified in case of war, and the reserves have been
called up. There is daily talk of war and terror from the Arab
terror groups.

=B7 Some say that Israel has already lived in peace, including
former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who made the claim while
in office during the Oslo Accords. However, the war of Gog and
Magog is prophesied to surprise the inhabitants of Israel.

"12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon
the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people
that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and
goods, that dwell in the midst of the land."

=B7 The people of Israel have gathered themselves together from the
nations and have made their land rich with livestock and goods.

"13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the
young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a
spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away
silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great
spoil?"

=B7 One group of invaders would come from this area.

"14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith
the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely,
shalt thou not know it?"

=B7 Today is not a time of safety in Israel, with many living in
armed camps and settlements and Palestinian areas isolated and
blocked off from entry or exit.

"15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts,
thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a
great company, and a mighty army: 16 And thou shalt come up against
my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in
the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the
heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog,
before their eyes."

=B7 God will allow these nations, including Russia, to come against
Israel in great numbers, so that He may show them His holiness and
power.

"17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in
old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in
those days many years that I would bring thee against them?"

=B7 God will bring judgment against the enemies of Israel.

"18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come
against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall
come up in my face. 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my
wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great
shaking in the land of Israel; 20 So that the fishes of the sea,
and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all
creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are
upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the
mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall,
and every wall shall fall to the ground."

=B7 A great earthquake is predicted in Israel, so powerful that the
whole earth will experience it and will shake at the Lord's power
and presence.

"21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my
mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against
his brother."

=B7 At that time, the invaders will fight among themselves, not
knowing on whose side they are. The earthquake contributes to this
confusion.

"22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood;
and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many
people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great
hailstones, fire, and brimstone."

=B7 The invaders will experience major rains, life-threatening
hailstones, fire and brimstone as in the time of Sodom and
Gomorrah. This will be God's judgment against them.

"23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be
known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am
the LORD."

=B7 There will be no doubt that the Lord has spoken through these
catastrophic events. The hardened hearts of many unbelievers will
then know that this time is unique because of the magnitude of this
chain of events.

IN CONCLUSION

I will provide commentary on Ezekiel 39 later this week, going into
the details of the judgment from the Gog and Magog war and of the
subsequent restoration in Israel.

Please note that I will also keep you informed about Prime Minister
Ariel Sharon's visit to Washington Monday and Tuesday.

Have a blessed week in Him!

--
Koenig's International News - http://watch.org

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] (Fwd) Address by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:51:02 -0500

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 05:37:53 -0500
From: imra@netvision.net.il
To: imra@imra.org.il
Subject: Address by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon
to AIPAC Policy Conference
Washington D.C., March 19, 2001

Address by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to AIPAC Policy Conference -
19-Mar-2001Address by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to AIPAC Policy Conference
Washington D.C., March 19, 2001

[Source: Israel Government Press Office]

"Towards a National Agenda of Peace and Security"

Distinguished Members of Congress, the leadership of AIPAC, Tim Willigur,
Lonny Kaplan, Howard Kohr, dear friends and supporters of Israel.

I bring you greetings from Jerusalem, the eternal capital of the Jewish
people for the past 3000 years, and of the State of Israel for the past 52
years and forever. Jerusalem belongs to all the Jewish people - we in Israel
are only custodians of the city. Only under the sovereignty of Israel has
Jerusalem been open to all faiths. Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, the
holiest site to the Jewish people, is something you should stand up and
speak out about. Jerusalem will remain united under the sovereignty of
Israel - forever.

I stand before you today, first and foremost as a Jew. This strong Jewish
identity is a central theme in my life and will be in carrying out my
responsibilities as Prime Minister. I want to work to strengthen the
relationship between Israel and Jews all over the world. I have established
a National Unity Government to unite the people of Israel, but unity among
Jews is vital worldwide. Unity is our source of strength. The Jewish people
have one small, tiny country; it is the only place in the world where Jews
have the right and capability to defend themselves by themselves. For 2000
years we had to rely on others for our defense, now we control our own
destiny. Exercising this right strengthens the security of Jews everywhere.

Although I am 6000 miles from home, I feel that tonight, I am among friends.
I would like to recognize the long-standing bipartisan support of the U.S.
Congress for the State of Israel. I have come to Washington to deepen and
strengthen the special relationship between our peoples. I wish to start by
developing a close relationship with President Bush and his Administration,
enhance our ties with both houses of Congress, and with the American people
as a whole. Ten years ago, under the leadership of President George Bush,
Secretary of Defense Richard Cheney, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff, General Colin Powell, the United States won a great military victory
in the Gulf War, that changed the face of the Middle East.

An entirely new situation emerged that opened a 'window of opportunity'
leading to the Madrid Peace Conference in the fall of 1991.

The clear lesson of this period was that if there is a secure Middle East,
there can be a peaceful Middle East. Regional security proved to be a
pre-requisite for peacemaking: face to face negotiations without the threat
of aggression, violence or terrorism. This became the underlying principle
of the Madrid Conference and subsequent Israeli-Arab negotiations.

In the years that followed Madrid, every Israeli Prime Minister sought to
advance the peace process in his own way. All of Israel seeks peace. Based
on my personal experiences in all of Israel's wars, I am committed to
achieving peace. But Israel needs peace with security, a peace that will
last for generations.

Unfortunately, the situation in the Middle East in 2001 is no longer the
same as it was in 1991, the security of the region as a whole has eroded.

A new wave of international terrorism is on the rise from Afghanistan to
Lebanon - some of it state-sponsored. Most recently, acts of terror
instigated by the Palestinian Authority, coupled with deliberate incitement,
have become one of the primary sources of instability in the Middle East.

Terrorism as a form of warfare is a strategic issue in our region: Most of
the past wars in the region were instigated by acts of terrorism. Therefore,
on the basis of past experience, even today international terrorism can
still threaten regional and global stability.

Terrorism thrives when international norms and principles are ignored; when
the peaceful resolution of disputes is displaced by violence and
intimidation. Therefore, strengthening cooperation among all western nations
including Israel, and concerted efforts led by the United States are the
only way to contain this dangerous trend.

Regional security is eroding in the wider Middle East, as well. Iraq has not
been under UN monitoring for more than two years and sanctions have been
increasingly ignored. There can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein is seeking
to restore his mass destruction weapons capability and his quest for
long-range missiles.

Iran today is providing unprecedented support for terrorism. It not only
backs Hizbullah, but also seeks to arm and train Palestinian organizations
like Hamas and Islamic Jihad that are planning attacks within Israel and
against Jewish and Israeli targets abroad. Today, Iran is continuing its
effort to export fundamentalism, converting Lebanon into one of the main
centers of international terrorism that will inevitably undermine the
stability of the entire Middle East.

Iran is already testing missiles that can strike Israel. But it is planning
to produce significantly longer-range missiles that will put the Middle
East, Western Europe, Russia and even parts of the U.S. itself at risk.

Much of this ballistic missile technology comes from North Korea, but it is
also emanating from the Russian Federation.
In the Middle East today, the forces of instability feel they are gaining
momentum. In this new environment, it is not surprising that the
Arab-Israeli peace process has reached a stalemate in recent months as the
considerations of our immediate neighbors have been altered.

Syria is looking east to its ties with a resurgent Iraq and Iran, instead of
better relations with the West. The Palestinians are waving the flags of
Iraq and Hizbullah. Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Authority are
returning to the belief that they can defeat Israel by means of armed
struggle. They feel that violence will produce further Israeli concessions.
Arafat is willing to destabilize the entire Middle East, including moderate
Arab regimes, in order to achieve his goals.

The current situation in the Middle East can be reversed. Strong democracies
determined to protect themselves can restore stability and build the
foundations for a lasting peace.

First, I believe that Israel can reach an agreement with the Palestinians
and I will make every effort to reach such an agreement. This agreement will
be based on two basic stages.

In the first stage, which we have begun, we are already taking immediate
steps to ease up restrictions and improve the economic situation of the
Palestinian population. At the same time, we will maintain a relentless
fight against terrorists and their supporters with an effort to prevent
escalation. Steps and measures to stop the violence and restore stability
must be taken by the Palestinian Authority as well as the Israeli security
forces. Let me emphasize that I draw a clear distinction between terrorists
and their supporters, on the one hand, and the general population on the
other.

In the second stage, after a cessation of hostilities, and when stability
has been restored, we will restart the negotiations.
Despite intense diplomatic efforts of the last nine months, it is clear that
conditions are not yet ripe to conclude a permanent status agreement.
However, Israel remains committed to agreements that previous governments
have signed, that were ratified by the Knesset, and also implemented by the
other side. But Israel will not be bound by the record of past negotiations
that failed.

It is for this reason that I have called in the second stage for a new, more
realistic approach of non-belligerency and a long-term interim agreement.
More than ever, Israel needs security zones to protect it from the growing
dangers in the Middle East; the Palestinians need contiguity and a better
economic future. And time is needed to make sure that incitement and hatred
are removed from the Palestinian media and from school textbooks and that
children are taught the language of peace, so that we can achieve real
reconciliation and a true end to the conflict.

For this to occur, Arafat must understand, first and foremost, that he will
gain nothing from violence. Israel will not negotiate while Israeli
civilians and soldiers are under fire.

Regrettably, just last week, we received a definite intelligence warning
that Yasser Arafat's own Presidential Guard, known as Force-17, was planning
a car bomb attack in the heart of Jerusalem. Many Israeli lives were at
stake. The Force-17 unit was located in Palestinian-controlled Ramallah, but
Arafat was not prepared to stop this threat against Israel by himself.
Israel placed a ring of checkpoints around Ramallah in order to catch the
Force-17 unit. The PLO tried to create an international uproar about our
actions, saying that we wanted to strangle Ramallah. We do not want to
create barriers for the Palestinians, but I will do what is necessary to
protect the people of Israel.

Second, it is not enough to address the Palestinian issue alone. For two
decades many believed that if Israel would only make diplomatic progress
with the Palestinians, the rest of the Middle East would fall into place.
That has not happened over the last ten years. The wider sources of regional
instability must be neutralized. It is imperative that Iraq be placed under
strict inspection and monitoring. Iran's backing of international terrorism
must be stopped. The proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and
missile delivery systems to both Iran and Iraq must be halted.

Third, in order to assure for both the security of Israel and the United
States, we must provide an answer to the emerging threat that both Iran and
Iraq pose to our future security; namely, long-range ballistic missiles.
Missile defense is an absolute imperative for our countries today. Israel is
proud to be one of America's major international partners in missile defense
development. It is our hope that Israel's own experiences in missile defense
can help the US and its allies in protecting their future security. In sum,
restoring regional stability requires both diplomacy and deterrence.

Let me close, however, with the following observation. The future of Israel
is not just a matter for the Israelis that live there. Israel belongs to the
entire Jewish people. And Israel would not be what it is today if it were
not for the efforts of all Jews worldwide, as well as of our friends, many
of whom I see here tonight. Our destinies tie us together and remain firmly
bound.
Now I turn to your generation to stand by Israel at this critical hour. We
have three main goals on our shared agenda; aliya, a Zionist-Jewish
education, and continuing to build the foundations of the State of Israel.

Now is the time to make aliya and join us in building the country. But if
you can't, it is also the time to visit and send your children to learn and
study. A Jewish and Zionist education is the key to Jewish survival. We can
meet these challenges and make all our dreams come true.

Together we can make the Jewish people secure, make Israel safe, and assure
for generations an Israel which is a true island of democracy at peace, with
a united Jerusalem as its eternal capital.

Today I feel the heavy responsibility of being Prime Minister. I am ready to
face the challenges and hopes that lie ahead. I am hopeful that if we work
together, we can live to see Israel reach its potential and take its place
as a true light unto the nations. I would like to end with a quotation I
used in my opening speech to the Knesset two weeks ago. It is taken from
President Abraham Lincoln's presidential address on March 4, 1865 and
reflects my own feelings and aspirations upon assuming office:
"With malice towards none, with charity for all; for firmness in the right,
as God gives to us to see the right, let us strive to finish the work we are
in; to bind up the nation's wounds;. to do all which may achieve and cherish
a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations."

Thank you.

--------------------------------------------
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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] PM to Bush today: 'Here's my plan for an interim accord'
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:59:19 -0500

Tuesday, March 20, 2001

PM to Bush today: 'Here's my plan for an interim accord'

Sharon will insist Arafat controls the violence

By Aluf Benn
Ha'aretz correspondent

WASHINGTON - The State Department's top Middle East experts are urging
that Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat be invited to Washington
because it is better to maintain a dialogue rather than leave him "out of the
loop."

Meanwhile, Ariel Sharon, on his first visit to Washington as prime minister,
has been emphasizing in talks with U.S. officials that Arafat is in control of
the violence in the territories, and without an end to the violence he won't
negotiate with him.

Sharon will see President George Bush today in a meeting that includes
lunch.

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, in a speech to the American Israel
Political Action Committee (AIPAC) departed from his prepared text to say
the Americans want to hear from "all leaders" in the region, another
indication that Washington will not be freezing out Arafat. Already in line for
visits to Washington are Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and Jordan's
King Abdullah II.Sources in the prime minister's entourage said yesterday
they are still waiting for a positive sign from Arafat that would make a
meeting between him and Sharon possible. A source said "it's important that
such a meeting should have results" and added that a condemnation of
terrorism from Arafat would help.

In meetings with U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and CIA chief
George Tenet, Sharon said that Israel is very interested in regional stability
"but not at the price of Israeli security." He explained to them his plan for
"first, an end to the violence," and then a series of negotiations aimed at
creating a long-term interim agreement between Israel and the Palestinians.

Greeted at the Pentagon by a 19-gun salute, signifying that it was a working
visit, the prime minister met first with Rumsfeld and then with Tenet.

For years virtually persona non grata in Washington, due to his role in both
Israel's settlement policy in the territories, and the Lebanon war, Sharon's
welcome in Washington was described by members of his entourage as
warm "with the Americans going out of their way for the prime minister."

He emphasized in his talks with Rumsfeld that terrorism is the central
destabilizing factor in the Middle East, but he sought to dissuade the
Americans from making any linkage between the Gulf confrontation with Iraq
and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

He pointed to the drive-by shooting attack south of Jerusalem yesterday as
an example of the terrorism sponsored by the Palestinian Authority, but he
stopped short of asking the U.S. to put the PA on the list of states that
sponsor terrorism. "That's for the Americans to decide."

After his meeting with Rumsfeld, sources in Sharon's entourage said the two
countries share the same view of the PA's role in the violence of the last six
months.

Rumsfeld, who brought his deputy Paul Wolfowitz to the meeting, heard
Sharon explain that Israel and the U.S. share the same common threats in
the region - from Iraq and Iran, two anti-American states seeking missile
capabilities. "We can do a lot together. We share common interests and
common dangers," Sharon told them.

Over lunch today Bush will hear the prime minister recap much of what he
told Rumsfeld, Tenet, and a convention of the AIPAC lobby, last night. In a
speech to the AIPAC gathering, Sharon went out of his way to emphasize
his "commitment to protecting a united Jerusalem, with the Temple Mount in
its center, under Israeli sovereignty forever."

In his inaugural speech in the Knesset, Sharon left out that promise,
prompting speculation he might be considering a deal with the Palestinians
in Jerusalem.

He told the AIPAC convention "restoring security and regional stability are
the precondition" for the success of the diplomatic process. And he called for
U.S.-Israeli cooperation to contribute to the restoration of regional stability.
He described his peace plan as a two-stage process.

First, restoring security and quiet, with decisive action against terror, in a
combined effort by Israel and the PA, while at the same time taking
immediate steps to ease conditions for the Palestinian population.

Secondly, once the violence, ceases, Sharon proposes negotiations based
on a multi-stage program to reach a long term interim agreement for non-
belligerency.

Other issues on Sharon's agenda for the meeting with the president include
the missing MIAs in Lebanon and clemency for Jonathan Pollard. He is not
expected, at this early stage in the relationship between the new
administration and his new government, to ask for any specific aid from the
U.S., other than overall security cooperation.

Bush is expected to call on Sharon to moderate Israel's pressure on the
Palestinians, and on the Palestinian Authority, lest it force the collapse of
the Palestinian government. The administration is in touch with Arab allies
throughout the region, seeking ways to prevent an extreme anti-Israel
decision next week at the Arab summit in Amman

http://www3.haaretz.co.il/eng/scripts/article.asp?mador=14&datee=3/20/01&i
d=113999

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Court backs lesbian parent against the rabbis
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:02:31 -0500

Tuesday, March 20, 2001

Court backs lesbian parent against the rabbis

By Moshe Reinfeld
Ha'aretz Correspondent

The High Court of Justice yesterday threw out a rabbinical court ruling that
had prevented a divorced lesbian mother of three from introducing her
daughters to her live-in woman partner, who is a mother of two boys.

The rabbinical court had found in favor of the lesbian's ex-husband who
sought to prevent their daughters - in the mother's custody - from meeting
the woman's partner. The man, on learning his ex-wife was living with a
woman, asked the rabbinical court to lower his alimony and prevent his ex-
wife from introducing the children to her partner.

The rabbinical court ruled it did not have the authority to lower the alimony
payments, but did order that the three girls could not meet their mother's
partner. When she appealed to a higher rabbinical court it ruled against her
on the grounds that the reason "is self-evident and needs no explanation."

The woman, through the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, appealed to the
High Court, arguing that the rabbinical court had exceeded its authority in the
matter and ignored natural justice.

In the High Court hearings, the legal advisor to the rabbinical courts claimed
that the issue had far reaching implications and asked the court to seek the
attorney general's views on the case. Attorney General Eliyakim Rubinstein
recently wrote to the High Court "it appears that under the circumstances,
the rabbinical court made a decision beyond its purview."

The High Court therefore went ahead with its decision to over-rule the
rabbinical court and throw out its verdict.

http://www3.haaretz.co.il/eng/scripts/article.asp?mador=14&datee=3/20/01&i
d=113997

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======= To: David Elphick <elphick@gohip.com>
Subject: [bprlist] 1,290 & 1,335 Days
From: Pam
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:38:44 -0500

Dear David:
    Thank you for your 'Response to Charlie...". I think it is rather
nice that we can have different opinions on some aspects of the
scriptures but have the same opinion on the fact Jesus Christ is the Son
of God and that God raised Him from the dead. Praise the Lord!
    You may be right about the 1,290 days, David, but that
interpretation leaves me with some unanswered questions, perhaps you can
answer them. Praise the Lord!
    The first has to do with Revelation 11:1-2 :"And there was given me
a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure
the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But
the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for
it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under
foot forty and two months." It would appear this measuring is done at
the mid-point of the 7 years and the court without the temple will come
under the control of the Gentiles who will tread down the holy city for
the next 3 1/2 years. This indicates to me that the temple of God, the
altar and them that worship therein, will NOT be under the control of
the Gentiles. The question, therefore is: "Who do you think will have
control of them during that period?"
    The second has to do with Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power
unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred
and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." The scriptures make it
clear, I think, that these two witnesses will be slain by the beast from
the bottomless pit at the end of the 7 years and their bodies will lie
on the street in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days which would indicate they will
be in Jerusalem for the period of their prophesying. The question I
have is this: "Where will these two witness be located in the city of
Jerusalem during that period?"

My thinking is that the temple of God and the altar will be under
the control of the two witnesses and they will be the 'those that
worship therein'. If this the case, it will not be possible for any man
to enter the temple of God until after they have been slain and it
follows, therefore, that it will not be possible for the abomination to
be set up in the temple during the time they are prophesying. The court
will be under the control of the Gentiles, which will permit the beast
to cause the daily sacrifice to cease, but he will not be able to enter
the temple until after they are slain. However, I could be wrong so I
appreciate your comments. Praise the Lord!

A third and fourth questions relate to your statement, in your
earlier comments, that the end will come at the end of the 1,290 days.
If this is the case, I have to ask: "What will happen during the
following 45 days, and what days will be shortened as prophesied by Our
Lord?"

God Bless you. Charlie Baker.

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [bprlist] 1,290 & 1,335 Days
From: "David
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:32:15 -0800

Hello Charlie, thanks for the challenge. I have never looked at this scripture closely.

I don't expect you will agree with my reasoning but . . .

I'll intersperse comments within your letter within ***.

>To: David
>Cc: <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
>From: Pam
>Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:38:44 -0500
>Reply-To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bprlist] 1,290 & 1,335 Days
>
>Dear David:
> Thank you for your 'Response to Charlie...". I think it is rather
>nice that we can have different opinions on some aspects of the
>scriptures but have the same opinion on the fact Jesus Christ is the Son
>of God and that God raised Him from the dead. Praise the Lord!
> You may be right about the 1,290 days, David, but that
>interpretation leaves me with some unanswered questions, perhaps you can
>answer them. Praise the Lord!
> The first has to do with Revelation 11:1-2 :"And there was given me
>a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure
>the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

**********************
Our first point of disagreement no doubt. The temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein is us. We are the 'living stones' of the temple of God. We worship at the alter by prayer and by our lives as witnesses to the Word.
**********************

But
>the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for
>it is given unto the Gentiles:

**********************
Here Gentiles refers to the heathen.
**********************

and the holy city shall they tread under
>foot forty and two months."

*****************
The forty and two months is the period of tribulation that follows the setting up of the abomination that desolates. The heathen will trample the temple of God, us. This is the tribulation period and it is those christians then alive who will suffer that tribulation. The living stones will be trampled upon. It will be a time similar to what Stalin and Hitler did to the Jews. 'This calls for patience'.
***********************

It would appear this measuring is done at
>the mid-point of the 7 years

****************************
You really need to read the KJV and appropriate concordance Charlie. Daniel 9 is gone. This is not the mid-point of seven years. This is the period that begins when the next incarnation, the 8th king who was of the seven as per Daniel 11, of the antichrist, the King of the South, Magog, has reached his full power. It is for 3 1/2 years. He will blaspheme and establish the 'something', and house himself in it as a mock Holy of Holies.

People will worship at that Holy of Holies, believing they worship God.

They will be worshipping Satan. The LIE. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE rethink Daniel 9. Look at my study on princes in Daniel. Daniel wrote 'the prince who is to come' because, back in 600bc Jesus was still to come. The Romans who destroyed the temple did so at the behest of God through the Roman Emporer. Didn't God move the heathen to do work for him as recorded in the OT?

Those same Romans, later, and their families and friends and countrymen (lend me your ears) became christians. Rome, way back then anyway, was the centre of the church for Christians, not Asia.

***************************

and the court without the temple will come
>under the control of the Gentiles who will tread down the holy city for
>the next 3 1/2 years.

*************************
The Christian faith will come under the full force of evil. It will be hated and supported in this hatred by the world. The world will fully support this filthy man. This will be for a period of 3 1/2 years and then he will be destroyed and judgement of the dead (i.e. the gentile, i.e. the heathen) will come. We will be raptured away or resurrected and raptured away, only to return to round up the nations and battle against the controlling spirits known as Gog and Magog.
************************

This indicates to me that the temple of God, the
>altar and them that worship therein, will NOT be under the control of
>the Gentiles.

*********************
I think I don't need to say anything here. Gentile = those against Christ. Israel = those in Christ. Jacob = Jew.
**********************

The question, therefore is: "Who do you think will have
>control of them during that period?"

***********************
The temple is the christian faith. We, and Christ, are in control of our own faith. The gentiles, or heathens, will be smashing us to a pulp but we will be strong. We know that death has no victory over us. Death brings release. What tough times these will be. Do we pray for Christ to come, knowing that this will precede that? Yes we do, because we know that this earth is not the end of life. The new earth will be like that of the earth Adam and Eve inhabited before they fell.
*************************

> The second has to do with Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power
>unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred
>and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." The scriptures make it
>clear, I think, that these two witnesses will be slain by the beast from
>the bottomless pit at the end of the 7 years and their bodies will lie
>on the street in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days which would indicate they will
>be in Jerusalem for the period of their prophesying. The question I
>have is this: "Where will these two witness be located in the city of
>Jerusalem during that period?"

************************
John in NZ reckons the two witnesses might be two of the candlestick churches, and I think he's on the money. Two of those 'churches' (christians with the gifts of prophesying (teaching and warning)) and guided by the angel of their church, will stand tall until the rapture of the saints. When the 'two' [church] witnesses are lifted up, so will the other saints still alive and so will the bodies of those who died-in-Christ.

As to their location. It doesn't matter. Jerusalem is a spiritual righteous place, the same as Egypt is a spiritual evil place. Jerusalem on earth will be wherever christians are. Egypt will be wherever the heathens or gentiles are.

******************************
> My thinking is that the temple of God and the altar will be under
>the control of the two witnesses and they will be the 'those that
>worship therein'. If this [is] the case, it will not be possible for any man
>to enter the temple of God until after they have been slain and it
>follows, therefore, that it will not be possible for the abomination to
>be set up in the temple during the time they are prophesying.

***********************
I understand why you think what you do now.
If you can see that the temple is the christian, the child of God, the living stone, then you will see that the problem you perceive does not exist. The abomination that desolates is a building. The temple of God is us. Review your KJV (get ONLINE Bible, free Bible software from http://www.OnlineBible.org) and review the NT references to the temple of God.

It is when this natural building (your not going to like what the building actually is) is set up that the church will go into full frenzied witnessing. The wise will understand (cf Daniel 11) but many will say that they are wrong.

The natural building might well be established in Jerusalem, but that is not the temple of God.
************************

The court
>will be under the control of the Gentiles, which will permit the beast
>to cause the daily sacrifice to cease,

***********************
Daily here refers to eternal, everlasting (as the Kingdom of God is). See Strong's Concordance about that. So it is a daily and eternal sacrifice that is to be ceased. This is done by killing all Christians, or making them denounce their faith, or destroying all christian churches and forbidding Holy Communion and forbidding prayer (although that would be impossible while a christian lives).

This brings to mind the 2,300 days in Daniel. This aspect needs further thought though. There might be a lead-in period of 2.5 years until king number 8 begins the persecution.
***********************

but he will not be able to enter
>the temple until after they are slain. However, I could be wrong so I
>appreciate your comments. Praise the Lord!

>
> A third and fourth questions relate to your statement, in your
>earlier comments, that the end will come at the end of the 1,290 days.
>If this is the case, I have to ask: "What will happen during the
>following 45 days, and what days will be shortened as prophesied by Our
>Lord?"

*********************
Beats me! Perhaps the end has a beginning. The vials that reign down on the heathen (we're gone) are meant to take a day. Perhaps it will take 45 days to round everybody up and for the judgement to be completed. It'll be good theatre.
*********************

>
> God Bless you. Charlie Baker.
>

And you.
Cheers,
David

>
>************************
>
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======= To: <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [bprlist] Re: Ezekiel 38
From: "John
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:33:16 +1200

Hi,
Interesting that Ezekiel 38 talks about events to come - but when? The
chapter itself gives us a time clue
38:18 "on that day ...will my wrath be aroused"

The study of the word "wrath" in scripture is interesting. I did a simple
Young's concorfance study years ago and found one important thing: "Wrath"
when it relates to the coming wrath at the end of the age only appears on
the day of the Lord - that great day when the Messiah comes in power and
glory at Armageddon.
Some interpreters (e.g.. Hal Lindsay: Late Great Planet Earth) put this
event (Ezek 38) early in the tribulation but the chapter itself puts it at
the time of God's wrath. On "that day" which is OT shorthand for "the day of
the Lord".

Johninnz

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] (Fwd) Ha'aretz: Har Homa to get 2,832 more apartments
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:51:20 -0500

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:19:54 -0500
From: imra@netvision.net.il
To: imra@imra.org.il
Subject: Ha'aretz: Har Homa to get 2,832 more apartments

Ha'aretz: Har Homa to get 2,832 more apartments

By Nadav Shragai Ha'aretz 20 March 2001

The Jerusalem Municipalitys planning board yesterday approved the
construction of an additional 2,832 housing units in the Har Homa
development on the southern outskirts of the capital. The regional planning
board must also approve the plan before it is implemented. The controversial
neighborhood is seen by the municipality as a buffer against the expansion
of Palestinian development northward from Bethlehem. Over 2,000 housing
units were previously approved for Har Homa and most are now under construc
tion, but only 638 have been sold. Sales have especially slowed in recent
months due to the renewed Intifada.

--------------------------------------------
IMRA - Independent Media Review and Analysis
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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] (Fwd) Ha'aretz: Israeli, PA ministers agree on agriculture
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:51:43 -0500

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:20:39 -0500
From: imra@netvision.net.il
To: imra@imra.org.il
Subject: Ha'aretz: Israeli, PA ministers agree
on agriculture cooperation

Ha'aretz: Israeli, PA ministers agree on agriculture cooperation

By Haim Bior Ha'aretz Correspondent Ha'aretz 20 March 2001

Agriculture Minister Shalom Simhon and his Palestinian Authority counterpart
Hikmat Zayed agreed yesterday on a series of steps for cooperation in the
protection of flora and fauna.

The two met at Simhon's office in Bet Dagan, along with their directors
general, and agreed that both veterinary services would prepare joint plans
in the following areas:

+ Diagnostic services and lab services for early detection of ailments in
animals

+ Israel to supply vaccinations to the PA

+ Professional help by Israeli agricultural experts for their Palestinian
counterparts

+ Dialogue between Israel and the PA to protect flora and prevent the crop
diseases.

Zayed said cooperation between the ministries was encouraging, even during
the political tensions, but he also complained the sieges of Palestinian
towns and villages made it difficult for agricultural experts trying to
prevent disease and investigate any suspicions of foot-and-mouth disease.

Simhon said he would raise the problem of the limits on the movement of
Palestinian agricultural experts and its effect on preventing the spread of
disease. He promised to pass the content of their discussions to the foreign
and defense ministers.

Sources said the meeting was friendly and professional and both sides had
refrained from direct comment on political matters.

Simhon later said "even if the Palestinians claim that they have found cases
of foot-and-mouth are true, these are isolated incidents.

--------------------------------------------
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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] (Fwd) Ha'aretz (Hebrew): PA Police warned to take cover
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:52:15 -0500

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:21:18 -0500
From: imra@netvision.net.il
To: imra@imra.org.il
Subject: Ha'aretz (Hebrew): PA Police
warned to take cover hour before
shelling of Nahal Oz

Ha'aretz (Hebrew): PA Police warned to take cover hour before shelling of
Nahal Oz

Aaron Lerner Date: 20 March 2001

Ha'aretz correspondent Amos Harel reports in the Hebrew edition of Ha'aretz
today that the IDF assumes the leadership of the Palestinian Authority was
either a partner, or at least ignored, preparations for the Sunday mortar
attack on Nahal Oz, east of the Gaza Strip. This was the first time
Palestinians fired mortars at areas within the Green Line.

An hour before the attack took place the Palestinians issued a call to the
Palestinian police to take cover in fortified positions because "an Israeli
action is expected."

Harel further reports that it is believed that the cell that fired the
mortars is associated with Yasser Arafat's elite Presidential Guard - Force
17.

For some reason this item was not reported in the English edition.

Dr. Aaron Lerner, Director
IMRA (Independent Media Review & Analysis)
(mail POB 982 Kfar Sava)
Tel 972-9-7604719/Fax 972-3-5480092
INTERNET ADDRESS: imra@netvision.net.il
pager 03-6750750 subscriber 4811
Website: http://www.imra.org.il

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] HailStorm
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:07:16 -0500

Microsoft unveils first major .NET strategy

SEATTLE -- Microsoft Corp. on Monday unveiled a plan to blend traditional
economics and New Economy services to form the first initiative of its .NET
strategy. Called HailStorm, it is the first set of services to clearly define what
the company plans to do with .NET, Microsoft's system for writing programs
for the Internet that work with most other computing devices. Company co-
founder Bill Gates has said it is the most important thing to happen to
Microsoft since Windows. The initiative will depend on customers willing to
pay for Internet-based services. In its final form, HailStorm will keep track of
everything a computer user can imagine, from credit card numbers to
calendars to address books. From there, the system will provide people with
a way to easily make purchases or conduct other transactions online, or to
be notified of certain things via a variety of electronic devices. For example, a
HailStorm user could buy an airplane ticket online, then set up a system
where he or she would be notified if that plane was on time, either via
personal computer, handheld device or mobile phone. HailStorm also will
work with Microsoft competitors, such as Apple and Palm. "It's about putting
users in control of information," Gates said. (AP) Full story

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/convergence/index.asp?ee

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Taliban atone for statue destruction delay
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:24:11 -0500

March 19, 2001 13:34 (Israel time)

Taliban atone for statue destruction delay

Reuters

KABUL - Afghanistan's ruling Taliban on Monday carried out the ritual
slaughter of 100 cows to atone for not acting earlier to destroy all the
country's statues, including two giant Buddhas.

In Kabul, 12 cows were slaughtered in the presidential palace while the res t
were sacrificed in other Taliban-held areas around the country, officials s aid.

While most of the world was outraged by the destruction of the Afghan
heritage, the movement's reclusive leader Mullah Mohammad Omar ordered
the sacrifices to atone for not smashing all statues, which he considers
pagan idols, earlier.

"Based on the order, the slaughtered meat will be distributed to the poor
residents of Kabul and other areas," a Taliban official told reporters at t he
presidential palace in Kabul. Each one would receive around one kilogram
(2.2 lb) of meat, the official added, as workers packed the bloody chunks o f
meat into plastic bags.

The Taliban argue that the destruction of the statues, including the two
colossal Buddhas in Bamiyan province, is based on Islamic law and is an
internal issue. The move has drawn international condemnation, with many
Islamic countries questioning the religious basis for the decision.

Many Buddhist countries have been especially angered at the destruction of
Afghanistan's pre-Islamic Buddhist heritage, although the Taliban have
denied the campaign was aimed against their religion.

Taliban authorities say they may lift a ban on journalists visiting Bamiyan on
Wednesday to allow them to see the rubble of the sculptures, which once
soared 53 metres (175 feet) and 38 metres (125 feet). Museum statue
collections across the country have also been destroyed.

The current state of the Bamiyan statues, which were carved into a cliff, h as
yet to be verified, although the difference between Taliban accounts is onl y
whether all traces have been eradicated or some pieces of rock remain.

The statues, once Afghanistan's best-known historic treasure, date from an
era nearly 2,000 years ago, when the country, at the heart of trade routes
across Asia, was a centre of Buddhist civilisation.

http://www2.haaretz.co.il/breaking-news/MiddleEastNews/357656.stm

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Taco Bell offers Mir a target
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:32:21 -0500

3/20/01
InfoBeat - Taco Bell offers Mir a target

IRVINE, Calif. (AP) - If Mir hits the bull's-eye, everyone wins
a taco.
            That's what Taco Bell is promising 281 million Americans if the
core of the Russian Mir space station hits a floating target the
fast food company will anchor 10 miles off the Australian coast.
            ``I don't know what the odds are,'' said Laurie Gannon, a
spokeswoman for the Irvine-based company. ``Call Vegas.''
            The 135-ton Mir is expected to come crashing back to Earth on
Friday, ending 15 years in orbit. Russian controllers expect as
much as 25 tons of Mir's wreckage will survive re-entry to hit a
remote area of the Pacific Ocean well east of Australia.
            One expert said the odds the station's core will come down on
Taco Bell's 40-by-40 foot vinyl target - emblazoned with the
company's logo and the words ``Free Taco Here!'' - are slim to
none.
            ``They're not going to lose any money at all,'' said William
Ailor, director of The Aerospace Corp.'s Center for Orbital and
Reentry Debris Studies.
            Taco Bell estimates it would have to spend less than $10 million
to give everyone in the U.S. a coupon for a free taco. Just in
case, the company has purchased an insurance policy to cover the
cost.

http://www.infobeat.com/cgi-
bin/WebObjects/IBFrontEnd.woa/wa/fullStory?article=406447824

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Armageddon
From: "David
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:36:01 -0800

Hello all,

Armageddon: is it different to the valley of Jehosophat? or valley of Jezreel? or the Day of the Lord's judgement? I have used * * to identify similar phrases in the following:

Joel 3:2 I will also *gather all nations*, and will bring them down into the *valley of Jehoshaphat*, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Joel 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for *there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.*

Is this not the same as:

Hosea 1:5 And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the *valley of Jezreel.*

Hosea 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be *gathered together*, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the *day of Jezreel.*

Is this not the same as:

Rev 16:16 And *he gathered them together* into a place called in the Hebrew tongue *Armageddon.*

And is this not the same as:

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, *gathered together* to make war against *him that sat on the horse* (Jesus), and against his army.

And is this not the same as:

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to *gather them together to battle*: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead *were judged* out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they *were judged* every man according to their works. and is this not the same as:
Ezekiel 38:12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon *the people that are gathered out of the nations*, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land."
38:15 *And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, agreat company, and a mighty army*: 16 *And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.*"
38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?"� 18 And it shall come to pass at the same time *when Gog shall come against the land of Israel*, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, *Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking* in the land of Israel; 20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

Or are these different events, all in which the nations (heathen) are gathered together against Israel (christians) and judged by the Lord?

David

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Palestinian Backers Propose UN Force
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:33:46 -0500

Palestinian Backers Propose UN Force

By EDITH M. LEDERER
.c The Associated Press

UNITED NATIONS (AP) - Setting the stage for a showdown with the United
States, supporters of the Palestinians urged the Security Council Tuesday to
back the creation of a U.N. observer force to help end six months of
Israeli-Palestinian clashes.

Three months after the council defeated a resolution to establish a U.N.
force following intense lobbying by the United States, Bangladesh formally
introduced a very similar resolution Tuesday. It was immediately denounced
by
Israel and the United States.

``Israel, as it has stated repeatedly, firmly objects to the idea of
dispatching international observers to the region,'' a spokesman for Israel's
U.N. mission said.

``The United States won't support it,'' said acting U.S. Ambassador James
Cunningham. ``We have a long-standing position on that and it hasn't
changed.
... We'll oppose it.''

The Palestinians argue that the presence of U.N. observers would help
control
the violence and save Palestinian lives, noting that the majority of the
victims have been Palestinians.

Since the violence erupted Sept. 28, 430 people have been killed, including
352 Palestinians, 59 Israeli Jews and 19 others.

``The problem here is that the international community has hesitated before
Israeli intransigence,'' said Nasser Al-Kidwa, the Palestinian U.N. observer.
``The reason is that the most powerful permanent member of the Security
Council continues to support Israel.''

The resolution was defeated in December when the Palestinians failed to get
the minimum nine ``yes'' votes. But much has since changed. There are new
administrations in the United States and Israel, and five new countries on
the 15-member Security Council.

This time, the Palestinians should get at least nine votes - the resolution's
seven co-sponsors, Bangladesh, Colombia, Jamaica, Mali, Mauritius,
Singapore
and Tunisia, plus China and Ukraine, which voted for the December
resolution.

But the United States would then almost certainly use its veto to kill the
resolution.

In an attempt to avoid a veto, the four European members of the council
scheduled a meeting late Tuesday with Palestinian supporters on the council
to explore possible compromise language.

``There is a growing feeling among council members that if a resolution is
taken, it has to have some positive message - not to stir up confrontation,''
said deputy ambassador Valeri Kuchynski of Ukraine, which currently holds
the
council presidency.

The Palestinians are pushing for a vote by the end of the week, ahead of the
March 27-28 Arab summit in the Jordanian capital, Amman.

The draft resolution would put the council on record expressing ``its
determination to establish a United Nations force of military and police
observers to be dispatched throughout the territories occupied by Israel
since 1967.''

According to the draft, the force would help implement cease-fire agreements
reached at an Egyptian summit last October, stop the violence, and enhance
``the safety and security of Palestinian civilians.''

It asks Secretary-General Kofi Annan to consult the Israelis and Palestinians
``on the composition, modalities of deployment and functioning of such a
force.''

This language is exactly the same as in the defeated December resolution.

AP-NY-03-20-01 1830EST

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010320/wl/un_mideast_1.html

via: Third_Watch@yahoogroups.com
.

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Smile, You're On Scan Camera
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:36:16 -0500

Smile, You're On Scan Camera
by Julia Scheeres

2:00 a.m. Mar. 14, 2001 PST

When football fans learned that their faces were scanned and compared
to mugshots of common criminals at this year's Super Bowl, many were
outraged. But they shouldn't have been surprised.

In the United States, face scans are used by casinos to look for
cheats; law enforcement to digitalize mug shots; welfare departments to look
for double-dippers; drivers' license bureaus to reduce I.D. forgers; and ATMs
to separate clients from crooks.

Overseas, Israel's Ministry of Defense uses facial scanning to monitor
movement along the Gaza Strip. A scruffy district in London uses them to
remotely patrol the streets. Mexico and Uganda use them to register voters.

The facial scans work by converting images into numerical codes that
can be easily stored and searched in large databases. Proponents say they
are
less intrusive than other biometric scans and highly effective. But some
experts say the technology is inaccurate, which can lead to
misidentifications.

The technology was around long before it leapt into the public's
consciousness Super Bowl Sunday, Jan. 30 in Tampa Bay, Fla. And based
on the
growing and unregulated use of the software, there'll be a lot more of it in
the future.

It all started with something called the FERET program, a Department
of Defense initiative in the early 1990s to determine the viability of using
algorithms to measure faces. A handful of universities were selected to work
on the $6.5 million program and to turn the futurist concept into reality.

"It was a great stimulus to the technology," said Christoph von der
Malsburg, who directed FERET research at the University of Southern
California. "It separated the successful systems from the less-successful
systems."

When the program concluded in 1997, commercial interests gobbled up
the technology. The free market has improved the technology and pushed
prices
down, said Richard Norton, the executive director of the International
Biometric Industry Association.

"This stuff was sci-fi just a few years ago," said Norton. "Now it's
here to stay."

The trade association expects the annual value of the biometric
software market to rise from $165 million a year in 2000 to $2.5 billion by
the end of the decade.

Applications for facial recognition technology fall into two
categories: identification and surveillance.

As a form of identification, proponents say the technology replaces
PINs, passwords and cards that can be lost or stolen. Furthermore, they
argue, facial scans are less intrusive than other biometrics such as finger
scans.

San Francisco's InnoVentry, for example, uses face-scanning software
in its check-cashing machines to separate customers from crooks. The
machines
cater to check cashers who don't have enough money to open a bank
account.

"With our system, all you need is a face," InnoVentry CEO Frank Petro
said.

A camera incorporated into InnoVentry's machines scans customers'
faces when they try to cash a check for the first time. The image is then
compared with a "negative file" of over 2,000 people who have tried to pass
bad checks. If no matches are made, the customer completes the
transaction.
On the next visit, all the customer has to do to get the cash is type in the
correct social security number and get his or her face scanned.

The Super Bowl controversy, which angered some fans when they found
out they were under surveillance, has made many companies and
government
agencies loath to discuss the topic. The CEO of a company that
manufactures
the software got jumpy when this reporter asked about the Florida face scan.

"What face scam?" he demanded.

But even if the people using the software don't like to talk about it,
a glance at the Web pages of manufacturers such as Visionics, eTrue and
Viisage shows a growing list of clients and applications.

Despite its James Bond appeal, the technology has severe limitations,
warned Julian Ashbourn, who wrote a book on biometrics called Advanced
Identity Verification.

"There are a number of variables to the real-life application of
facial technology," said Ashbourn. "It will never be 100 percent accurate."

The system can be fooled by lighting, background, the angle of a face,
glare off glasses, and facial hair, he said. Also, the subject being scanned
must be immobile and close to the camera.

Because of these limitations, many companies using facial recognition
software rely on a back-up or secondary system to verify results.

"Every biometric has its strengths and weaknesses," said David
Teitelman, CEO of eTrue. "We recommend that our customers use at least
two
biometrics."

InnoVentry's check-cashing machines have integrated telephones
connected to "e-bankers," which call users if there are doubts regarding
their identity and ask them a series of personal questions. A biometric
security plan being tested by NASA, which would allow engineers to control
unmanned spacecraft from their home computer, uses both facial scanning
and
fingerprint readers.

Many companies don't appear to be very confident about their systems.
Although there are over 20 companies manufacturing facial recognition
software, only five participated in a government-sponsored facial recognition
vendor test in 2000.

The government is scurrying to work the kinks out of the existing
technology through a $50 million project called the HumanID project. The
Department of Defense is once again funding university research for the
program, with the goal of identifying people 500 feet from a sensor in a
variety of lighting and background situations.

The HumanID program will "move biometric technology to its next
logical step -- the recognition of non-cooperative subjects with high
accuracy," according to the DoD's website.

Project manager Jonathon Phillips said the project's goal was to
protect U.S. personnel and facilities overseas. He refused to say if the
government planned to post signs or otherwise alert the public that the
technology was in use.

From Wired News, available online at:
http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,42317,00.html

via: Third_Watch@yahoogroups.com

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] (Fwd) Ha'aretz (and IMRA): U.S.wants to reduce Sinai MFO staffing
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:41:38 -0500

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:15:19 -0500
From: imra@netvision.net.il
To: imra@imra.org.il
Subject: Ha'aretz (and IMRA): U.S.
wants to reduce Sinai MFO staffing

Ha'aretz (and IMRA): U.S. wants to reduce Sinai MFO staffing

By Aluf Benn Ha'aretz Correspondent Ha'aretz 21 March 2001

[IMRA: Juxtapose this report with the daily reports of Palestinian attacks
against Israel from within Egyptian Sinai, massive arms smuggling into the
PA from the Egyptian Sinai and Egyptian threats from time to time that they
may move forces in Sinai in reaction to Israeli measures against the
Palestinians and one sees just how dangerous it is to trade land for pieces
of paper - even when they are backed by active American participation in
monitoring forces. The American move only encourages Egypt to press harder
to remove the forces from Sinai.]

U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, mandated to reduce overseas U.S.
military postings, asked Prime Minister Ariel Sharon this week if Israel has
any objections to cuts in U.S. staff at the Multinational Foreign Observers
(MFO) monitoring station in the Sinai.

The multinational force was deployed in the Sinai as part of the
Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty.

U.S. forces there include a company of ground troops and expert logistical
and command staff.

Sources in Sharon's entourage said Israel probably would agree to the
elimination of the ground forces, but wants to make sure the American flag
still flies over the Sinai observation team, so would insist on keeping the
U.S. logistical and command staff.

The MFO station operates by a tripartite agreement between Israel, Egypt and
Washington, and the three countries share its costs.

The MFO has been mentioned in the past as a paradigm for the kind of
multinational force that might monitor a demilitarized Golan, if Israel and
Syria ever reach agreement on the issue.

--------------------------------------------
IMRA - Independent Media Review and Analysis
Website: www.imra.org.il

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] (Fwd) Ha'aretz: 'PA planned Intifada,' Israel reports to Mitchell Com
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:44:01 -0500

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:18:41 -0500
From: imra@netvision.net.il
To: imra@imra.org.il
Subject: Ha'aretz: 'PA planned Intifada,'
Israel reports to Mitchell Commission

Ha'aretz: 'PA planned Intifada,' Israel reports to Mitchell Commission

By Daniel Sobelman Ha'aretz 21 March 2001

A recent statement by Palestinian Telecommunications Minister Imad
al-Falouji, that the Al Aqsa Intifada was planned, rather than being a
spontaneous response to then opposition leader Ariel Sharon's visit to the
Temple Mount, yesterday became a central component of Israel's public
relations war against the Palestinian Authority.

Falouji's statement starred in the 50-page report Israel submitted yesterday
to the Mitchell Committee, the international fact-finding commission
investigating events in the territories, whose members arrived in the region
this week for a series of meetings.

Among others, the committee will hold its first meeting with Prime Minister
Sharon and Foreign Minister Shimon Peres.

Falouji's statement bolsters one of the document's central contentions: that
the Palestinian Authority "instigated, orchestrated and directed the
violence." And though the minister later changed his story, a tape of his
original statement was carefully attached to the report.

Those who prepared the report, which is Israel's official response to a
document submitted earlier by the Palestinians, even considered including
intelligence information that would definitively incriminate senior PA
officials in the violence, Israeli sources said. In the end, however, they
decided that protecting the sources of this information outweighed its
public relations value.

The report's authors faced an unenviable task, given the international
criticism of many of the measures Israel has taken. How, for instance, does
one justify Israel's so-called "assassination policy?" The report, which
completely rejects the term "assassination," addresses this issue from a
legal standpoint. It argues that nothing in international law prohibits
attacking an enemy, as long as he is a combatant rather than a civilian. It
also cites Red Cross guidelines stating that civilians who choose to
participate in "hostilities" automatically become combatants, thus
forfeiting the "immunity" they previously enjoyed as civilians. Targeting
those responsible for terror attacks against Israel is therefore legal, the
report says. And though it does not relate to the specifics of the
individuals Israel has killed, it insists that only people who played a
"direct role" in terrorist actions have been targeted.

Though the report attempts to demonstrate a degree of empathy with the
suffering of the Palestinian population, it also rails against what it terms
Palestinian exaggerations and even outright lies. Often, the report noted,
Israel has no way of determining the truth behind Palestinian deaths and
injuries. In some cases where it has been possible to check, however,
Palestinian claims that a death was caused by Israeli soldiers or settlers
have later proven false. In one case, for instance, Palestinians claimed
that a 21-day-old baby, Hind Kweidar, was killed by IDF gunfire, yet it
later turned out that the infant had died of crib death (SIDS). In another
case, Palestinians said that settlers had killed Issam Jodah, but Physicians
for Human Rights later determined that he was killed in a motorcycle crash.

The report also rejects the PA's claim that Israel is causing it economic
harm. Palestinians, it says, have no "right" to work in Israel or to enjoy
any kind of economic interaction with Israel. "The benefits of economic
integration," it says, "are the fruit of a peaceful interaction between
Israelis and Palestinians. This cannot be expected to survive the kind of
confrontation that the Palestinians have been waging on Israeli society over
the past five months."

Indeed, given that the PA has shown not even "a hint of willingness" to end
the violence, "there is something bizarre and distasteful" about its
insistence that its economy should nevertheless enjoy the fruits of peace,
the report says.

The report includes a number of maps aimed at illustrating Israel's
arguments. One, for instance, traces the route of Sharon's visit to the
Temple Mount, to show that he did not come near the two mosques located
there. Others are meant to show that Palestinians went out of their way to
seek confrontation with the IDF, by going to places they would not usually
have any reason to be in.

--------------------------------------------
IMRA - Independent Media Review and Analysis
Website: www.imra.org.il

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] (Fwd) Sharm el-Sheikh Fact Finding Committee to Visit Israel
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:46:23 -0500

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 03:41:19 -0500
From: imra@netvision.net.il
To: imra@imra.org.il
Subject: Sharm el-Sheikh Fact Finding
Committee to Visit Israel (Israeli report on website)

Sharm el-Sheikh Fact Finding Committee to Visit Israel (Israeli report on
website)
(Communicated by the Foreign Ministry Spokesperson)
Jerusalem, March 20, 2001

Members of the Sharm el-Sheikh Fact-Finding Committee, chaired by
former US Senator George Mitchell, will arrive tomorrow in Israel
(March 21) for a working visit, in the framework of a visit to the
region.

The delegation, whose members include former Turkish President
Suleyman Demirel, Norwegian Foreign Minister Thorbjoern Jagland,
former US Senator Warren Rudman, and EU High Representative Javier
Solana will meet with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and with Deputy
Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Shimon Peres.

The delegation will also meet with Danny Naveh, the minister
responsible for coordination with the fact-finding committee, with
representatives of the Defense Ministry and the Israel Defense Force,
with former Prime Minister Ehud Barak, and with relatives of the
victims of Palestinian terrorist attacks. The delegation will also
visit Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance
Authority.

The visit is a continuation of the fact-finding efforts by the
committee with regard to the events of recent months, in keeping with
the mandate set out for it at the Sharm el-Sheih Summit of October
2000.

Prior to the arrival of the delegation, the Government of Israel
presented the committee with a document countering the Palestinian
claims presented to the committee, including the Israeli position
regarding the need for Palestinian steps to halt the violence in the
region, and referring to the Palestinian Authority's direct
responsiblity for the ongoing terrorism.

The above document will be made available on the Israel Foreign
Ministry's website which may be reached at www.israel.org .

--------------------------------------------
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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] China Official Warns US on Taiwan
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:48:50 -0500

CHINA OFFICIAL WARNS US ON TAIWAN
Author: RickA
Posted: Wed Mar 21 01:12:32 2001
Wednesday March 21, 2:10 AM

China Official Warns US on Taiwan

WASHINGTON (AP) - A top Chinese official said Tuesday ``very serious''
strains would develop in U.S.-China relations if the Bush administration
approves the sale to Taiwan of destroyers with a radar system that would
signficantly improve Taiwan's defensive capability.

Deputy Prime Minister Qian Quichen, who will meet with President Bush and
Secretary of State Colin Powell later this week, also refused to rule out a pre-
emptive attack on Taiwan if Bush goes ahead with the sale.

Qian said the sale would violate a 1982 agreement that says the quantity
and quality of arms sales to Taiwan could not exceed previous years.

Qian commented during a breakfast with news media representatives in New
York. He will have a meeting and a working dinner with Powell on
Wednesday and a meeting with Bush on Thursday.

Judging by Qian's remarks, the meeting could be among the most difficult
the two countries have had in years.

Taiwan has requested four destroyers equipped with the Aegis radar system.
The state-of-the-art battle system defends ships against aircraft and missile
attacks. The administration is expected to make a decision next month.

``Just imagine,'' Qian said, ``China has always stood for peaceful
reunification'' with Taiwan. The Aegis sale would ``change the issue into a
military solution,'' he added.

China fears Aegis could form part of a more comprehensive shield to defend
Taiwan against a missile attack.

Asked whether approval of the sale would trigger an immediate military
attack on Taiwan, Qian said, ``It all depends on the circumstances.''

Qian also reaffirmed China's opposition to the Bush administration's plans to
deploy a missile defense system.

``THIS IS NOT JUST AN ISSUE INVOLVING CHINA,'' he said. ``If the
GLOBAL EQUILIBRIUM is broken so casually, it could lead to an
international crisis.''

As China sees it, U.S. deployment of a missile defense would alter the
international power balance in favor of the United States because, among
other factors, it would neutralize China's offensive capability.

Critics of the Bush plan contend that a missile defense program could touch
off an arms race.

Powell has defended the concept on grounds that it will deter an adversary
who might otherwise be tempted to develop a capability for launching
missiles against American cities.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/010320/8/kowm.html>http://sg.news.yahoo.com/0
1032
0/8/kowm.html

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Daily World Affairs Report items (3/20/01)
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:01:02 -0500

POPE CALLS FOR END OF IRAQI EMBARGO & PEACE IN
MIDDLE EAST

"The Church must witness the vitality and fruitfulness of the Gospel's
message in the land of the Revelation and Redemption", said last Saturday
Pope John Paul II, during an audience to Bishops of the Conference of
Latin Bishops of the Arab Regions (CELRA). In his message of
encouragement and hope, he specially recalled the visits he made during the
Jubilee Year to the places "in which God manifested Himself to humanity".

"Your communities, which live as minorities in societies in which culture
and everyday life are deeply marked by the presence of other religions,
must untiringly continue to reflect on your own Christian identity, to
maintain the authenticity of the Gospel", stressed the Pope to the Bishops.
During the audience, the Pontiff also highlighted the need for the laity to
"take part in an increasingly active way in the life and witness of the
Church".

The Pope stressed as well the need for Christians in the Holy Places to
give a firm witness of their identity, calling faithful in Jerusalem and ot her
cities in Holy Land not to emigrate, since "the Church cannot forget her
roots". The Pope also referred to the situation of Christians in other Arab
countries, specially Iraq, where the embargo "continues to cause many
victims". "Many innocents are paying the consequences of a war in which
the effects are affecting the most weak. (Church News)

&: As he met with a group of bishops from Arab countries, who were in
Rome for their ad limina visit, Pope John Paul II called for an immediate
resumption of negotiations between Palestinian and Israeli leaders. The
Pope said that the "distressing" events of recent days "have sorely tested
our hope for peace" in the regoin. He therefore stressed the urgency of "a
rapid return to the negotiating table." (Catholic World News)

A STORM FROM ITALY WILL REALIGN EUROPE

In about a month a storm will sweep from Rome across Europe. It will
rattle the European Union to its foundations and change its future
alignment. This is the story of the EU summer crisis of 2001. In late April
or early May Italy will have a general election. The winner is likely to be
Silvio Berlusconi of the Forza Italia with 2 coalition allies, Gianfranca F ini of
the Alleanza Nazionale (AN) and Umberto Bossi of the Lega Nord (LN).
Mr. Berlusconi, a media tycoon, has been able to put behind him an
unsuccessful 7 months as prime minister in 1994 and some subsequent
corruption trials. His program is a rightist one of extensive tax cuts. His 2
allies raise some political problems.

The AN was founded on the ruins of the old Italian fascist movement. Mr.
Fini has distanced himself from the more extreme elements of the party but
there are still many who harbor nostalgia for the Mussolini era. Umberto
Bossi of the LN has termed the current center-left government "red
fascists born of an alliance of bankers and Freemasons."He has denounced
them for "seeking destruction of the family and the West, while supporting
immigration and showing complacency for homosexuals." And he wants
illegal immigrants sent home.

All this conjures up memories of the uproar a year ago that followed the
coming to power of a coalition government in Austria that contained
members of J=F6rg Haider's rightist Freedom Party (FPO), known for its
friendly references to Adolf Hitler. At that time the other 14 members of
the EU made fools of themselves. They consigned Austria to quarantine
before it had even formed a government, let alone implemented any policies
which might have been considered objectionable.

This time senior figures in the EU have been careful to play down threats
of a possible boycott. But the drama will come not over politics but
economics. The Berlusconi government has pledged to announce a series
of deep tax cuts without regard for the responsibility of Italy, as a membe r
of the euro zone, to maintain the stability of the euro. The Commission wil l
denounce the tax cuts, and the resulting deficit, as making nonsense of the
stability pact which all members of the euro zone have signed and it will
point to the fines to which Italy could be liable under the pact. Mr.
Berlusconi will stoutly defend his right to implement policies to which his
electoral victory entitles him.

The Anglo-Saxon press will rejoice in the imminent collapse of the euro and
prospect of grass growing in the streets of Brussels. The euro will fall
heavily on the currency markets. At a euro zone summit meeting Italy will
be forced to back down. Germany will insist on the value of the euro being
maintained. Faced with huge fines and even with the political and economic
chaos of pulling out of the euro zone, Italy will come into line. The euro will
recover as sharply as it fell and numerous speculators will lose their shir ts.
There will be 2 long-term effects:

=95 The demonstration that the euro zone has to hang together economically
will increase the drive to political union already signaled by Chancellor
Schr=F6der.

=95 A means to this end will have been provided by the euro zone summit
meeting, which will become a regular event. Heads of government cannot
realistically be expected to limit discussion to economic subjects and will
happily move on to political matters. Thus the regular summit meetings of
the euro 12 will become the political as well as the economic government of
Europe. Prime Minister Tony Blair will complain about his exclusion. He
will be politely but firmly told that so long as he chooses to remain outsi de
the euro, Britain is excluding itself. (Int'l Herald Tribune - Opinion by a
former representative of the European Commission in Washington)

THE QUIET KNIGHTS OF EUROPE'S ROUND TABLE

A secretive group of industrialists seeks to influence the thinking of poli tical
leaders

The building could almost have served as a set for Alfred Hitchcock.
Tucked away in an inconspicuous corner of Brussels, the nondescript block
has no porter, just an intercom that lets visitors in through 2 glass doors in a
small, spartan hallway leading to 2 lifts and a staircase behind a locked
door. The offices of the European Round Table of Industrialists(ERT) are
on one floor. Understated and functional, they seem somewhat incongruous
for an organisation whose 46 members are the chiefs of European
companies with a combined annual turnover of more than E950bn and a
workforce across the world of nearly 5mn people.

You would not imagine that this place saw the conception of a strategy that
is set to be assessed by Thursday's European Council meeting in
Stockholm. That strategy, adopted by European governments and the
European Commission at a council last year in Lisbon, drew largely on
broad ERT recommendations. It exhorted the European Union to become
"the most competitive and dynamic knowledge-based economy in the world,
capable of sustainable economic growth with more and better jobs and
greater social cohesion".

That may sound like big-picture stuff but then everything about the ERT is
grand. Even its carefully guarded invisibility conveys the quiet confidence of
power. Secrecy has merely strengthened its critics' conviction that the ERT
is "a shadowy lobby group that has, for the past 15 years, exerted an iron
grip on policymaking in Brussels", as The Guardian newspaper described it
in a 1999 report.

A particularly critical study, entitled "Misshaping Europe", which was
published 7 years ago, even suggested that "the political agenda of the EC
has to a large extent been dominated by the ERT". And while the 5,000 or
so lobbyists working in Brussels may occasionally succeed in changing the
detail of directives, the report says, "the ERT has in many cases been
setting the agenda and deciding the content of EC proposals".

Ridiculous, say its past and present members. Although they admit the
group is "not Oxfam", they argue that, if anything, big business in Europe
has faced an uphill struggle lobbying governments and Brussels . "In the
US, everything is focused around Washington," says a long-standing ERT
member. "In Europe, you have to lobby at a local level. That is to say in
Paris, London, Rome, Berlin or Madrid and not in Brussels."

The truth probably lies somewhere in between. Another of the group's
members describes the ERT not so much as an organisation but a club: "A
club of prima donnas and it is a miracle it works at all". Founded in 1983, it
grew out of the groupe des presidents formed in the '60s by a very select
and small number of European business tycoons led by Giovanni Agnelli of
Fiat. They met once or twice a year to exchange ideas over a few bottles
of good wine.

Under the impulse of Pehr Gyllenhammer, then chairman of Volvo, this
group was transformed in the '80s into a larger, more active big business
lobby. Its membership has since grown from the original 17 to 46 and its
secretariat has moved from Paris to Brussels. It remains very exclusive,
dominated by big European manufacturing groups such as Siemens,
Renault, Fiat, ThyssenKrupp, Philips and Bayer and multinationals such as
Unilever, BP Amoco, Royal Dutch/Shell and Nestle.

And it continues to be governed by strict club rules - for instance,
"membership is personal, not corporate, and by invitation only". Members
are asked to leave if they fail to show up at the 2 annual meetings or do n ot
help to establish working groups or to draw up position papers. "The ERT is
a valuable talking shop for businessmen and an opportunity for very busy
people to come together. It also produces good reports," says Marco
Tronchetti Provera, chairman of Pirelli.

In a recent pamphlet produced for members, the ERT's current chairman,
Morris Tabaksblat, chairman of Reed Elsevier and a former head of
Unilever, explains that the ERT founders "were driven by the poor state of
the European economy in the early '80s, and the frequent failure of
European companies to compete successfully against Japanese and
American firms expanding in their home markets".

The organisation has seen its influence grow for 3 main reasons. First, the
EC governments and other European institutions were anxious to have a
direct interface with leading representatives of European big business.
Second was the strong commitment of specific members in putting forward
proposals to improve Europe's competitiveness and in many cases helping
to influence the European agenda. Third was the weakness of the Union of
Industrial and Employers' Confederations in Europe (UNICE), the "official"
voice of European business.

Officials in Brussels concede that the ERT can claim much of the credit for
providing the initial impetus that led to the European single market in 199 2.
Many ERT members and their companies have been shaken by the current
turmoil in the stock markets. Several believe that Europe now has a chance
to overtake the US. "The short-term outlook in the US is certainly more
worrying than in Europe," says one. "If our institutions can move forward, I
believe we have a window of opportunity we cannot afford to miss." To
some with vivid imaginations, especially across the Atlantic, this may soun d
like a conspiracy being hatched in an ordinary little office in a quiet cor ner
of Brussels. (The Financial Times - Analysis)

POWELL GETS STANDING OVATION FOR JERUSALEM SLIP

US diplomats cringed Monday as a large crowd exploded in raucous
applause for Secretary of State Colin Powell in appreciation of his recent
gaffe in calling Jerusalem the capital of Israel. Powell, speaking before t he
annual meeting of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, carefully
avoided any mention of Jerusalem or Israel's capital in his remarks, but hi s
hosts were eager to play it up.

"This is one audience that appreciates your testimony before the House
International Relations Committee that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel,"
AIPAC president Tim Wulliger said while introducing Powell to the Jewish
lobby group. The capacity crowd in the ballroom of a large Washington
hotel immediately rose, enthusiastically clapping, while Powell sat quietly at
the head table and embarrassed State Department officials remained in
their chairs, heads lowered.

"I think you'll notice that we didn't stand for that round," said one senio r
official who attended the speech, and like other US diplomats there rose to
join in applauding the secretary on other occasions. "It's something we
really don't want to call that much attention to." At his daily briefing, S tate
Department spokesman Richard Boucher tersely and repeatedly declined to
comment about the ovation or Wulliger's remarks that proceeded it.

But another official allowed that the sustained loud applause had been
unsettling. "We obviously would have preferred that it not be mentioned,"
the official said, recalling the headaches Powell's original March 8
testimony had caused. Powell infuriated the Arab world when he told the
congressional committee President Bush was committed to moving
Washington's "embassy to the capital of Israel, which is Jerusalem."
(Agence France-Presse)

MICHAEL TURNER =0F
(mykelturner@airmail.net)

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Pastor Criticized Over Clinton Speech
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:07:50 -0500

March 21, 2001

Pastor Criticized Over Clinton Speech

(CHARISMA) -- Dick Bernal, a leading charismatic pastor has found himself
in hot water for his part in a fund-raising event that raised more than $2
million for earthquake relief work in India.

Bernal, senior pastor of Jubilee Christian Center in San Jose, Calif., was
bombarded with complaints after hosting former President Clinton at a gala
program at the church earlier this month. He was then criticized by one of
the fund-raiser organizers for apologizing for upsetting people.

Clinton spoke just briefly at the March 2 evening, which also featured New
Age guru Deepak Chopra and rap singer M.C. Hammer, who is a member of
the 5,000-strong church, the largest in the Silicon Valley area. Clinton's
presence helped draw 2,500 high-paying attendees - but also prompted
hundreds of "hate mail" messages, Bernal told "The (San Jose) Mercury
News."

He said that he was shocked by the response. "Dear God, has the church of
Jesus Christ been reduced to the Republican Party? I've got 3,000 black
people in my church, and 95 percent of them are Democrats. Bill Clinton isn 't
welcome in my church? I mean, come on, give me a break. To me, Clinton is
a guy who needs redemption, like anybody else."

Hammer said that the event had unified Hindus and Christians in the
community "on behalf of humanity." He told the "News": "I was taken aback
by criticism from some of the people who claim to be, quote-unquote,
'Christians.' Because how can you say you're a lover of Christ and then be
critical of an event that's helping people who can't help themselves?"

A week after the event, Bernal took out an ad in the "News" declaring that for
20 years Jubilee Christian Center had been a "sinner-friendly church." All
were welcome, it said, including "former presidents who are flawed...fallen
preachers, judgmental evangelicals, New Agers, homosexuals." Bernal's
message said he was sorry if he had offended anyone. "Please forgive me
and pray for me. God is my ultimate judge."

But that didn't end the bad feeling. Kailash Joshi, president of the IndUS
Entrepreneurs, a local Indo-American business association coordinating the
$25 million fund-raising effort to which the March 2 event contributed, sai d
that Bernal should not have apologized. "We are insulted, because Clinton
was our honored guest," he told the newspaper.

Bernal said that he did not want to offend Joshi. "He's a nice man. But he' s
not the one who got the e-mails." He said: "I just caught so much flak from
the evangelical right wing - of which I'm a proud member...I got 600 e-mail s
from Christian people telling me I was going to hell." Bernal said it was n ot
as though Clinton had spoken about morality. "He spent four minutes talking
only about India and the need."

One of those who opposed Clinton's appearance was Galen Call, senior
pastor of Los Gatos Christian Church. He said Clinton could be forgiven for
his wrongs, but "setting him in a place of honor and leadership is another
question." Joshi said that the event had not been church-sponsored. "It's j ust
like you allow me to have a party in your house," he said. "That's all it i s."

Last August Bill Hybels, senior pastor of Willow Creek Church in suburban
Chicago, was criticized for inviting then-President Clinton to speak at a
leadership conference at the church.

=A9 2001 charismanews.com

http://www.mcjonline.com/news/01a/20010320c.shtml

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bprlist] Pastor Criticized Over Clinton Speech
From: Rimsky58
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:37:18 EST

Anyone who is seeking redemption should be welcome into the house of God.
Yet, did Clinton come into this church for redemtion, or was the church using
Clinton's presence for exploitation?
-Timothy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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======= To: David Elphick <elphick@gohip.com>
Subject: [bprlist] To Close Out the 1,290 and 1,335 days
From: Pam
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:34:12 -0500

Dear David:
    Thank you for your comments in response to the questions I asked.
As you anticipated, David, I do not agree with your reasoning. When
John was told, Rev. 1:11, "What thou seest, write in a book, and send it
unto the seven churches.", I think John did just exactly that. Then,
when he was told, Rev. 1:19, "Write the things which thou hast seen, and
the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;.." that
he did the same and my reading of the above scriptures leads me to
'reason' that all the things "which shall be hereafter..." tells us what
will come AFTER the churches. The result, I think, is a chronological
outline of that which what was (at the time John wrote) what things are
and what things shall be hereafter (after all the 'overcomers' of the
churches are 'taken out of the way'), for each of the 'revelations' that
were given to John. Praise the Lord!
    Your reasoning indicates that you do not believe the Revelation of
Jesus Christ is composed of literal 'revelations' and, in view of that,
I fear it would be pointless for us to attempt to discuss the 1,290 and
1,335 days. I am happy that you apply a literal interpretation to the
scriptures that tell us Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that you have
come to believe that God raised Him from the dead. That is the most
important fact. The other facts will come out, in accordance with the
will of God, in His own time. Praise the Lord!
    Please give Matthew a hug and kiss for us. God bless you. Charlie
Baker.

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Gulf states alarmed by Russia-Iran alliance
From: <owner-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:34:48 -0500

Gulf states alarmed by Russia-Iran alliance

By Steve Rodan, Middle East Newsline
SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Wednesday, March 21, 2001

http://www.worldtribune.com/

ABU DHABI =97 Russia is trying to allay concerns by Gulf Arab states
that Moscow's relations with Iran threaten the region.

Of particular concern is an agreement to sell Teheran Russia's S-300
anti-aircraft system which defense sources here say could disrupt
cooperative defense efforts by the Gulf states.

Russia is offering its S-300 anti-aircraft system, which China has
deployed on it coast, as a means of defending against enemy ballistic
missiles.

Russian officials said the S-300 has been touted as superior to U.S.
anti-missile systems such as the PAC-3. Moscow is trying to sell the
S-300 to both Iran and Syria.

Russia is also prepared to deploy the S-300 as part of a proposed
European ballistic missile defense system. Officials said this would
be an alternative to the controversial national missile defense system
being developed by the United States.

"Russia has testing areas, research centers and testing facilities,"
Russian Defense Minister Igor Sergeyev said. He told a news conference
last week that the S-300 is mobile and can be deployed as part of a
European system independent of the United States.

Russian defense officials have stressed that Moscow's growing military
ties with Iran will focus on defensive weapons and honor international
nonproliferation agreements. This means, they said, that Moscow will
not sell Iran long-range missiles or weapons of mass destruction.

The officials also asserted that the visit by Iranian President
Mohammed Khatami last week did not result in new military contracts.
They said Khatami focused on civilian issues.

"We will supply Iran with defensive weapons and we will ensure that
there is no harm to these [Arab] countries," Russian Deputy Defense
Minister Mikhail Dmitriev said. "We understand that this
[Iranian-Russian cooperation] is not merely a military issue but a
political one as well."

Dmitriev is heading a Russian arms delegation during the International
Defence Exhibition, IDEX 2001, now being held in Abu Dhabi. Russia is
seeking to expand a 1994 military cooperation agreement with the
United Arab Emirates.

But Gulf defense sources said Russia has agreed to sell Iran the S-300
anti-aircraft system. They said such a system would disrupt Gulf
defense cooperation and could torpedo regional air exercises.

Russian officials acknowledge that they are competing with former
republics of the former Soviet Union for weapons upgrades and
procurement. These include Belarus and the Ukraine.

The officials are warning Arab militaries that Russian manufacturers
will take no responsiblity for any damage done in upgrades of their
systems conducted by their competitors.

"No Russian manufacturer will guarantee the safey of systems
modernized by a foreign country," Aleksandr Nozdrachev, a Russian
defense industrial official said.

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