To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - (Fwd) Religion Today News Summary for Tuesday, January 26, 1999
From: bpr-list@philologos.org
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 01:12:37 -0500
C U R R E N T N E W S S U M M A R Y
by the Editors at ReligionToday.com
January 26, 1999
[.. snip.. ]
Anton LaVey's Church of Satan is in disarray. Legal disputes
among leaders since LaVey's death two years ago have weakened the
organization, Reuters said. Its headquarters, the Black House in
San Francisco, is deserted and damaged and followers suspect
leaders are bilking them, reports said. LaVey's daughters Karla
LaVey and Zeena Schreck reportedly have been locked in a legal
dispute with Blanche Barton, his former lover and mother of his
5-year-old child. "The Church of Satan is dead as an entity," an
unhappy member said. "Its high priests and magisters have become
nothing more than absentee landlords trying to convince those
inside and out that they still exist so money keeps coming in."
Approximately 90 Messianic Jewish fellowships are active in
Israel. There are about 12 congregations and 7,000 Messianic
Jews, those who believe that Jesus is the Messiah, in the country,
World Prayer Track News, a publication of Global Harvest
Ministries, said. Fifty-five of 62 cities in Israel have a
Christian presence. There reportedly are about 60 Arab Christian
congregations.
-----------
News from ReligionToday.com is Copyrighted by Media
Management. Content may be reproduced provided proper
credit is given to www.ReligionToday.com.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Jan 27, 1999 TV Programs
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:43:33 +0000
7:00 PM Eastern
HIST - 20th CENTURY - El Nino.
In 1977, a system of ocean buoys, land-based weather stations, and
satellites warned of a record-breaking El Nino pattern forming off
Peru's coast. The National Weather Service's Vernon Kousky and
Eugene Rasmusson of the University of Maryland join Mike
Wallace in a review of this meteorological phenomenon from the 16th
century to 1998. [TV PG]
8:00
HIST - THE LOST WORLD OF THE ETRUSCANS - Long before
Rome, Etruscan society embraces art, slavery, technology and
sensuality.(CC)(TVG)
TLC - EXTREME MACHINES - "Flight Power" - Unusual aircraft;
homemade plane has a lawn-mower engine; NASA's solar-powered
planes; vertical take-off and landing
planes.(CC)(TVG)
9:00
DISC - DISCOVER MAGAZINE - "Protecting the Presidents"
- A set of systems and structures are designed to protect
U.S. presidents.(CC)
10:00
CNN - NEWSSTAND: FORTUNE - (CC)
HIST - MODERN MARVELS - "Oil" - The oil industry in
the United States begins in 1853
Pennsylvania.(CC)(TVG)
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Infobeat News items
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:52:22 +0000
*** Ark. might OK concealed guns church
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) - Holy heat. There could be a gun under that
choir robe or churchgoer's jacket. A legislator has introduced a bill
to let people with concealed-gun permits bear their arms in church.
Constituents want the privilege because sometimes they must go from
work to weeknight church services and cannot get home to drop off
their guns, state Rep. Stephen Simon said. He introduced a bill Monday
to relax the state's concealed-weapons ban in houses of worship, as
well as in parks, sports events and bars. Guns still would be barred
from schools, state offices, courthouses and airports. Simon does not
think there will be any danger. See
http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2558207165-327
*** Ohio hoops fan said to impede rival
AKRON, Ohio (AP) - With Copley High School leading Wadsworth by only
two points in a crucial basketball game, a Copley fan made a defensive
maneuver surely not addressed in Wadsworth's playbook. Just as a
Wadsworth player was about to throw an inbounds pass, the 16-year-old
Copley student pulled the player's shorts down to his knees. Copley
held on to win Friday night's game, 65-60. "The incident took place at
a critical stage of the game, and it was a must-win for our team,"
Wadsworth coach John Martin said. "Can you imagine what kind of
concentration our kid had after he was exposed?" The Copley prankster,
whose name was withheld because of his age, was arrested after he
tried to run away. See
http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2558207696-97d
*** Trying to cope with Generation X
NEW YORK (AP) - It was the first day of school for Macy's new
assistant buyers. The twenty-something recruits had barely signed in
when one bustled up to training chief Bernadette Commisa, asking, "How
am I doing?" "That took me back! We had only just come in and taken
attendance," Commisa recalls. "They see the world a little differently
than we did." Bold, savvy, confident and often demanding, the 45
million youngsters dubbed Generation X are hard to miss in today's
workplace, and Corporate America is only just learning - sometimes
with eyebrows raised - to cope with them. See
http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2558207567-587
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - News: King Hussein/succession
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:55:32 +0000
09:45 PM ET 01/26/99
Hussein Arrives in US for Treatment
Hussein Arrives in US for Treatment
By JAMAL HALABY
Associated Press Writer
AMMAN, Jordan (AP) _ Only days after a triumphant return home
from six months of cancer treatment, King Hussein turned over the
temporary operation of Jordan to his eldest son Tuesday and flew back
to the United States for urgent medical care.
Hussein, 63, appeared flushed and leaned on a cane as he boarded
a royal jet along with his American-born wife, Queen Noor, and a team
of Jordanian and American doctors.
His jet landed Tuesday night in Rochester, Minn., where he had
undergone treatment for non-Hodgkins lymphoma cancer at the Mayo
Clinic. He was taken off the plane in a wheelchair to a car, an
airport official said.
Hussein arrived in Jordan on Jan. 19 with much fanfare, piloting
his own plane. He received hundreds of dignitaries at the airport and
a heroes' welcome on the drive into Amman from tens of thousands of
faithful, who packed the streets of the capital.
Before his departure Tuesday _ the king was not at the pilot
controls this time _ Hussein presided over a brief ceremony at the
airport to swear in Crown Prince Abdullah as regent during his
absence.
Hours earlier, Hussein _ who has ruled Jordan for 46 years_
formally named Abdullah, his eldest son, as crown prince and heir to
the throne. Abdullah, 36, is a major general in the Jordanian army,
where he commands the Special Forces that oversee the security of the
royal family.
Abdullah got the job after Hussein deposed his brother, Hassan,
who had been crown prince for 34 years.
In a letter to Abdullah that was made public by the palace,
Hussein expressed ``categorical confidence and trust in you and
your ability to carry out all the responsibilities with the utmost
dedication, loyalty and selflessness.''
The palace also released Hussein's angry letter to Hassan. The
king expressed disappointment with his brother's performance during
his absence and, for the first time, revealed there had been sharp
differences between them.
Hussein wrote that he and his family ``were hurt by the gossip
and lies about my wife and children'' by aides of Hassan, who were
not named in the letter. He did not elaborate but apparently was
referring to rumors of drug abuse by some of the king's children.
Hussein also said ``greedy'' aides persuaded Hassan to try to
dismiss Hussein loyalists in the army, including the army chief.
``I intervened from my sickbed to prevent interference in the
affairs of the army in a change that appeared aimed at settling
scores and retiring loyal and qualified people,'' Hussein wrote.
There also has been speculation here that Hussein removed Hassan
because he feared that if Hassan became king, it would be Hassan's
sons and not his own who would succeed him.
The change took many Jordanians by surprise.
``Nobody can cast any doubt on Prince Hassan, his ability and
his experience during 34 years in office,'' wrote columnist Fahd
Fanek in the mass-circulation Al-Ra'i newspaper.
But he added: ``Popular trust in King Hussein is considerable,
and the Jordanian people happily accept any decision he takes.''
Hassan, an academic and Jordan's economic strategist, lacks the
king's charisma. He is blunt and remains a remote personality to many
Jordanians.
Observers say Abdullah's military background will lead to a
smooth transition in Hussein's wake and ensure stability in this
pro-Western kingdom.
``Prince Abdullah has the support of the army and, because he is
the king's son, he has the support of Bedouin tribes who form the
bedrock of support for Hussein,'' said Faisal Refou, chairman of the
political science department at the University of Jordan.
Abdullah, who is a pilot like his father, is Hussein's son from
his second marriage to Toni Gardiner of Britain. She adopted the name
of Muna al-Hussein when she converted to Islam upon her marriage in
1960.
At the age of 4, Abdullah was sent to school in England, but
completed high school in the United States. He later studied
international affairs at Oxford University in England and
Georgetown University in Washington, D.C.
In 1980, he went to the British military academy at Sandhurst
and served in the British army in Germany and Britain.
After serving in several army and air force divisions in Jordan,
Abdullah in 1993 was appointed deputy commander of the Special
Forces. He assumed command a year later.
That year, he married Princess Rania, who comes from the wealthy
al-Yassin family in the West Bank town of Tulkarem. They have a
son, Prince Hussein, 4, and a daughter, Princess Iman, 2.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Rev 22:18,19
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:32:47 +0000
Rev 22:18,19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of
the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things,
God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And
if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this
prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and
out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this
book.
--------------------
[Quoted from Aristeas] "When the volumes of the law had been read
through, the priests, and interpreters, and elders, and governors of
the city, and all the princes of the people standing by, said
'Forasmuch as this interpretation is rightly, religiously, and in
every thing so very accurately finished, it is fit that all things
should continue as they are, and no alteration should be made.' When
all had by acclamations given their approbation to these things,
Demetrius commanded that, according to their custom, they should
imprecate curses upon any that should, by addition, or alteration, or
diminution, ever make any change in it. This they did well in, that
all things might be kept entire and inviolate for ever."
A Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica, John
Lightfoot
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Our next book
From: bpr-list@philologos.org
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:58:25 -0500
Hi everyone...
We thought others on the list may be interested in the books we
are reading and would perhaps be interested in purchasing them
themselves and reading along with us -- possibly discussing it
later?
So, the next book that we'll be reading in our spare time will be:
Legends of Jerusalem by Zev Vilnay
available at: http://www.chrbook.com
Type: Trade Paperback
Number of Pages: 313
Vendor: Jewish Pub Society Publication
Date: 1973
ISBN: 0827605692
CBD Stock No: 05692
Dimensions: 8 1/4 x 5 1/2
Retail price: $24.95
CBD price: $12.95
Availability: Available to ship immediately.
"Your Jerusalem studies won't be complete without this classic
anthology of over 300 legends about the Old and New cities.
Collected during Vilnay's decades as a resident, these tales come
from Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and cover sacred places,
natural sites, and the names they bear. With nearly 100
illustrations. Softcover from JPS."
------
Please note that we are not associated with Christian Book
Distributor's (http://www.chrbook.com). We have however
purchased several books from them online without any problems.
We like their service.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - The Rapture?? [Part 2]
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Debi")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:34:03 -0500
2Thes 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called
God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple
of God shewing himself that he is God.
This is what he will be doing. Wanting you to worship him as God!
More documentation Isa 14:13-14; Rev 13:13-15.
2Thes 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you
these things?
Paul telling the Thes, I have told you these things before, how can
you be confused?
2Thes 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed
in his time.
Paul telling the Thessalonians, you know the circumstances and the
order of events; and you know where to look because it is on the North side
of Mt. Zion, God's temple, that satan will appear, as told to you by the
prophets of old. ie: the OT.
2Thes2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who
now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Who is this "He who not letteth?" And Who is this "He" being taken
out of the way? The verb always being the action, therefore, it must
transfer back to the subject and object. These are laws of the Greek. In
the Greek, "letteth" = Strong's #2722, = katecho = this is a transitive verb ...
which means The subject and the object are not in this verse
therefore the verb automatically being transitive transfers it back to verse 4
where the subject is Satan. Where is Satan? Satan is in Heaven; What is he
doing there? He is being held their by Michael, Rev 12:7. So we are
talking about Michael who now letteth will let, or I like to say kick Satan
out of heaven and onto the earth Rev. 12:12 until he be taken out of the
way by Christ! But remember it is God who is in control and Michael is doing
the will of God.
2Thes2:8 AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall
consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the
brightness of His coming:
Now what we are addressing, what is the subject of this chapter? The
subject is when is the time of the gathering back, note in this verse
how it begins, AND THEN = after the fact of the falling away; After
the deception, that God allows to come out upon this world, to those who
have not listened to the word of God; Wicked = better translated wicked one,
note the caps. Revealed = You will recognize the wicked one, Satan. The Lord
= the true messiah; The spirit of his mouth = the two edged sword = the
truth God's word, the living word; Brightness =truth, fairness, love,; of
his coming = that is our gathering back to Christ at the 7th trump, the
last trump.
2Thes 2:8 (KJS) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord
shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the
brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the
working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
"Even him..." Who is him? What is the last subject spoken about in
verse 8? "whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth
and shall destroy with brightness of His coming: Even Him whose coming is after
the working of Satan." The gathering to our Lord Jesus Christ is the
subject; "Him" is Christ! Note: did it say before, or in the
middle of the tribulation, no it said AFTER THE WORKING OF SATAN ..... shall our
Lord Jesus Christ return and destroy that wicked One with the brightness of
His coming; after the sixth trump then the seventh trump.....
2Thes 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that
perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they
might be saved.
You must remember the original manuscripts were not organized with
chapters and verse numbers. For clarification we will read verse 9
and 10 together. Note the comma at the end of verse 9. Therefore would have
read:
2Thes 2:9&10 Even him (speaking of Christ), whose coming is after the
working of Satan (speaking of Satan) with all power and signs and
lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that
perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they
might be saved.
For it is Satan that is the Father of all lying. Jn 8:44
2Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
that they should believe a lie:
This is the purpose I write and give this documentation from God's
word so that you can teach the truth in God's word that you may receive
the love of his truth. Do not ignore God's word for there is a warning here in
2Thes 2:11 read it again.
Now, lets take a look at in what body we shall be raised, on that last
day of men in the flesh, which is the first day of our souls in the
spirit on the Lord's Day, which is for a 1000 years and is called the
millennium; Turn with me to Paul's writing in 1Cor 15:38-52!
1Cor 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to
every seed his own body.
We are here for God's pleasure. (Rev 4:11)
1Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in
corruption; it is raised in incorruption.
It is through the work of Christ, by his Grace and our faith and
witness through repentance that we put on incorruption by the blood of our
Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
It is raised what? It is raised a spiritual body. Not flesh & bone
(without blood) as some suggest but a spiritual (and note) body. The
spirit is a body. What happens to flesh and bone Ecc 12:7. For
those of you that think we are raised flesh and bone I suggest you go out to the
graves and take a look ... the bones are still there today, the spirit is
not!
1Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot
inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
There will NOT be flesh ie: corruption in our spiritual bodies. There
will be no evil in the one body of Christ.
Eccl 12:7 (KJS) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and
the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
1Cor 5:5 (KJS) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction
of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
We see here clearly the flesh will be destroyed. That the spirit
which is a body will be saved.
1Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but
we shall all be changed,
We shall not all be with Christ asleep when he returns, but we all
shall be changed. Note "ALL" shall change from their flesh bodies to their
spiritual bodies. When? Next verse!
1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
We = ALL shall be changed from flesh bodies to spiritual bodies at the
sounding of the LAST trump. Again there is only one trump to sound
announcing our Lord Jesus Christ. Again this is the seventh trump,
the last trump! Clearly....The flesh will not be raised. Your spirit
shall be raised! So if someone claims to be Jesus and you are still in your
flesh body you know they are a liar and a false prophet for it is
written we shall be changed at his coming! This is the mystery Paul is showing
you!
We know in 1Cor 2:7-8 the prophets speak the hidden wisdom of
God......
1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden
wisdom, which God ordained before the world into our glory:
1Cor 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew; for had they
known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Now that we have studied line by line, let us let God's word speak the
hidden wisdom see if you can follow:
2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren by the coming of our Lord Jesus
Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Thes 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither
by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of
Christ is at hand.
2Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not
come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be
revealed, the son of perdition;
Isaiah:14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into
heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit
also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will
ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Revelation:12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,
called the Devil, and Satan, which was cast out into the earth, and
his angels were cast out with him.
2Thes 2:4 Who opposeth and exaleth himself above all that is called
God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple
of God shewing himself that he is God.
Revelation:13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire
come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 13:14 And deceiveth
them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he
had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on
the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a
sword, and did live.
Rev. 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose
names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the
foundation of the world.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come
down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a
short time.
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not
since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or
there; believe it not.
Mark: 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up
to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be
brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against
them.
Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no
thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but
whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is
not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
Mark 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the
father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and
shall cause them to be put to death.
Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh
should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he
hath shortened the days.
Matthew: 24:29 IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall
the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars
shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 "AND THEN" shall appear the sign of the Son of man in
heaven: AND THEN shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see
the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Revelation: 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord
shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the
brightness of his coming:
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgement was
given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for
the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not
worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads,
or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand
years.
Reve 7:13 (KJS) And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What
are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I
said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they
which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made
them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand
years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Mark: 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give
suck in those days!
There you have it the word of God speaking, but woe to them that are
with child, satan when He returns.
Let me use a couple verses which symbolizes God's word completely
regarding when Christ returns and if you are going to fly away:
First, Matt 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the
time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first
the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat
into my barn.
Gather who first? Gather ye together FIRST the tares!
Second, Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that
ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to
stand.
Those that seal themselves in the word of God are they who live and
reign with Christ during the Lord's day, (2Pet 3:8) which is a 1000
year period, which is called the millennium. What are they doing there?
They are teaching those that are spiritually dead. Why do they get too?
Because, they were the ones that were able to stand against
deception, in the evil day, the sixth trump, and they did NOT go off flying away, but
stood firm against the anti-christ, satan himself! Why? Because they have
put on the full armour of God's word, His truth, and the truth always defeats
deception!
Reve 9:4 (KJS) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the
grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but
only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
So seal yourselfs in his word, remain in the field doing His work, so
that you are able to present yourself as a virgin bride to Him.
(spiritually speaking!)
Third, Ezek 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am
against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them
fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the
souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Oh yeah, and what was sent out of Noah's ark first the dove or the
raven? Correct the raven, and as the days of Noah so shall it be
again. Symbolic!
Matt 24:37 (KJS) But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming
of the Son of man be.
There you have it God's word documented. It is not my purpose to
upset anyone. I know many Christians believe they shall be in
pre-tribulation rapture. This idea really took off when a lady named Margaret
McDonald, in the year 1830, was stammering around speaking in unknown tongues
and had a vision of this so called pre-tribulation rapture.
I have documented God's word regarding the subject of the Rapture. I
wish to see your documentation of God's word of any other type of
Rapture! Thank You and God Bless.
Your Brother in Christ,
`canmore
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - The Rapture?? [Part 1]
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Debi")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:53:45 -0600
[Mod Note: I divided this message into a two-parter. Hopefully
both parts will make their way to you. <g>]
I got this from another list but it answers a lot of questions I see
here. It is long but worth reading. :-) Debi
I want to start by saying many will teach that you do not need to read,
study, learn the book of Revelation (Rev.) in its entirety because the
church will not be here after chapter 4! They will tell you the word
"church" does not appear in God's word after chapter 4! I will ask you
to put aside your traditions and open your minds to the word of God!
Reve 1:3 (KJS) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words
of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the
time is at hand.
God 's word states Blessed is he that readeth and they that hear the
words of this PROPHECY, which is not part, but the complete book of
Revelation!
Reve 22:16 (KJS) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these
things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and
the bright and morning star.
Note right off, God's word prove's them ignorant, the word churches does
appear after chapter 4 in the book of Rev. God's word states to testify
unto you these things in the churches! God does not say just chapter 1-4
and/or 20-22.
I hope we can agree to include the book of Rev. in our study for the
word of God tells us too. Excuse me, instructs us, to testify unto you these
things in the churches.
Second, lets clarify the definition of the word "Rapture" and where it
originated? "Rapture" refers to the "Gathering Back To Our Lord Jesus
Christ;" The word "Rapture" does not appear in the bible, no, not even
once. The word "Rapture" is the English version, of the Latin translation, of
the Greek word 'harpazo'. This is the verb found in 1 Thes 4:17 meaning to
'catch away' as if from sudden danger.
In other words, they refer to the word "Rapture" to mean the church,
(equals the body of Christ,) will "gather back to our Lord Jesus Christ" before
the tribulation. The tribulation is the time of the false prophet, the
anti-christ who comes defacto here on earth, who is no other than the son of perdition,
satan himself. They get this so-called "Rapture Theory" primarily from
a passage in 1Thes 4:13-18 and then support their translation with a verse
here and a verse there throughout the word of God.
The great error, is the subject in 1Thes 4:13-18. The subject and the
question being addressed in 1Thes 4:13-18 is where are the dead! The
subject in 2Thes 2:1 and through-out the whole chapter of 2Thes is, when
is the "Gathering Back to our Lord Jesus Christ." The answer of when is
the Gathering Back, the "Rapture" is clearly given in 2Thes chapter 2 and
support by many other chapters in the word of God.
When I speak of time I am speaking of before, during, or after the
tribulation. I am not referring to the hour! The time of the gathering
back is not given in 1Thes 4:13-18 unless you do a study on the word
"trump" used in 1Thes 4:16. This is the only clue in that passage that would
indicate when we will be gathered back.
God does tell us the events to occur regarding His gathering back
through Paul in 2Thes chapter 2, Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and throughout the
book of Rev. As well as many other single verses we could use through-out
the word of God, like Eze 13:20.
I think both sides of this issue in the Christian family would agree
there will be a gathering back to our Lord Jesus Christ. The division:
1. Who is Raptured
2. When is the Rapture
3. What occurs during and after the Rapture
4. In what body one is Raptured
Why is it important to know God's truth regarding His word in these end
times: God tells us why:
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgement was
given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast,
neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads,
or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years!
All I ask is you read God's word with an open mind and learn God's truth
from his word!
Ok. Let's all pray for a word of wisdom and get into God's word. Father
we come to you now searching for the truth in your word, let the Holy
Spirit move, guide, direct, and provide us with the truth and wisdom in your
word, in the Lord Jesus Christ name we ask, Amen.
Let's start with Paul's writing of 1Thes 4:13-18:
1Thes 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,
concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no
hope.
This is the subject written about in 1Thes 4:13-18! I would not have
you be ignorant concerning them which are dead from the flesh (asleep).
1Thes 4:14 - For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so
them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
God returns with those that are asleep in Him. All who died before the
Lord's Day (the millennium) and had faith, witnessed by repentance to
Him, will come with Him on the Lord's Day. (Rev. 19:14)
1Thes 4:15 - For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord that we
which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them
which are asleep.
Why? Because those that are asleep they are already with Him! (Ecc
12:7)
1Thes 4:16 - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a
shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead
in Christ shall rise first:
Now where in 1Thes 4:16 does it say before the tribulation, during, or
after? The only clue regarding the time in this passage is the word
"with the trump of God" to know the time one must know the trumps! Notice
Paul tells us in 1Cor 15:52 this trump is the "last trump!"
1Cor 15:52 (KJS) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last
trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed.
When we do a study on the word trump we will find 7 trumps mentioned in
the book of Rev. With the 7th trump being the last trump and announcing the
coming of Lord Jesus Christ. Rev. 11:15 is the 7th trump. The 7th
trump is the last trump and follows the sixth trump. The sixth trump announces
the coming of the false prophet, satan himself. Let's continue.
1Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up
together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we
ever be with the Lord.
Do a study in the Greek on the word "clouds" and "air." Note: Paul uses
the word "cloud" to mean a large gathering Heb 12:1.
Hebr 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a
cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so
easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set
before us,
Check the word "cloud" out in the Greek, as used in Hebrews 12:1 and
1Thes 4:17 they are defined the same. We also know Christ returns with an
army in Rev 19:14 which is told to us again 1Thes 4:14. Let us look at this
word "air" as defined by the Strong's Concordance Greek Definition #109
ah-ayr` from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, ie respire; by anal. to blow); air
(as naturally circumambient):
Now, I am going to present you with an interpretation that can be made
from the Greek of how this verse should read in today's modern English
language.
1Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive in the flesh and WAIT for His return
shall be gathered up together with them in a large gathering, to meet
the Lord in the breath of life: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
His breath of life is eternal life. NOTE: remain = wait for His return
= not flying off to the first one that comes claiming he is God. For woe
to them that are with child (satan) when he returns. We are to be virgin
brides (spiritual speaking) when he comes not married to a spurious
messiah whom is claiming to be God.
The point is you cannot know the time, as before, or middle, or after
the tribulation from 1Thes 4:13-18 without examining closely 1Thes 4:16. To
know the seventh trump is the last trump one must study the book of
Rev. past chapter 4. For there is only one trump which sounds announcing the
Lord's coming! The seventh trump after the 6th trump! Let's recap!
1Thes 4:16- Who are the dead in Christ? Are they not the ones who have
already lived in the flesh, died in the flesh, and did have faith in
God? Is not the dead in Christ all ready with Christ? read 1Thes 4:14 again,
1Thes 4:14 - For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so
them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
They are with him, asleep and will return with Him. They are the army
spoken about in Rev 19:14 they are the cloud of witnesses that come with
Him;
Yes we will be gather back to the Lord but not until the Lord's trump
has sounded as stated in verse 16 of 1Thes 4;. This trump, the Lord's
trump, is the last trump 1Cor 15:52; Rev 11:15; Do a study on all the trumps in
the book of Revelation! Seven in biblical numerics means "Spiritually
complete." When you are done with your study of the trumps you will
find the 6th trump to be satan's followed by the 7th trump which is our Lord
Jesus Christ trump, the last trump.
Now let us go to 2Thes 2:1-10. This is the letter Paul wrote the church
which deals with the very subject and time of our Gathering Back!
2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren by the coming of our Lord Jesus
Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
This is the SUBJECT of Pauls letter to the Thessalonians, to the
church. I cannot emphasize this enough! This is the chapter that deals with the
subject of our Gathering Back. Paul is showing you the subject
completely here in 2Thes chapter 2. not from some translation of a verb from the
Greek to Latin to English but here in one verse the subject in detail
through-out this entire chapter.
2Thes 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by
spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ
is at hand.
Remember the question again is when is this rapture, and he tells you,
do not be troubled by my first letter in 1Thes 4; why because he shall make
it clear with this letter, this, an entire chapter on the subject. Not
with some translation of a verb from the Greek to Latin to English but clear
here in this chapter of when that time shall be:
2Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not
come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,
*the son of perdition;
Here it is, that day shall not come except there come a falling away,
FIRST, what day? The day of the gathering back to our Lord Jesus Christ, the
subject in verse 1! Let us examine this verse carefully. Here is the
time a falling away first. falling away = Greek #646 = apostasia =
defection from the truth; to be deceived;
(The falling away to be deceived from the truth. Who is the father of
deception? satan. satan will come and many will believe his lies
instead of the truth. They will fall away from the word of God ie: His truth!)
Paul clearly stating the time after the falling away: Who is the "Son
of Perdition?" Let's go to the Greek and look at this word perdition.
(using a strong's concordance) perdition = apoleia = Greek #684 with the prime
being #622 = apollumi = which is a part of #623 = Apolluon = a destroyer (ie:
Satan); -Apollyn.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend
out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the
earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the
foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is
not, and yet is.
satan is the only one, at this time, that has been sentenced to death:
Eze 28:18.
Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine
iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring
forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee
to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
The son of perdition is none other than Satan himself. Their is only
one who God has sentence to Perdition. Check the Strong's = Greek #622 =
perish = Greek #623 = appolyon, which is one of Satan's names! No one can be
classified as going into perdition UNTIL AFTER the great white throne
judgement, or one has been judged by God. The son of perdition = Satan
= and he is the only one to be sentenced to perdition or to perish. He is
condemned to death.
Let's recap ... There is no way our Lord Jesus Christ is going to return
to this earth which is the beginning of the Lord's day, the millennium,
until after there is a great falling away because the son of perdition, "who
is Satan," is going to be revealed on this earth doing .... lets continue:
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Pre wrath tribulation
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("CL")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:53:48 -0600
> << There is a difference between the second coming of Christ, and the
rapture
> of the church. >>
>
> Oh? What is the coming of Christ if it's not to rapture His church?
> Bek
The second coming of Christ is prophesied in Zechariah 14:
......vs 4: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Lives,
which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave
in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall
be a very great valley,etc.....
This shows that He will come in vengeance and fight for Israel and at this
time his feet will physically touch the earth......this happens at "the day
of the Lord", at the end of the 7 year tribulation.
The rapture of the church is a different happening altogether and will
happen prior to the second coming. The teaching of the rapture had been
revealed by the Lord to the apostle Paul and he writes of it in 1
Thessalonians. At this "coming" the Lord's feet will not touch the earth,
but He will meet His church in the air.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
"For this we say to you *by the word of the Lord*, that we which are alive
and remain unto the coming of the Lord shallnot prevent them which are
asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with
the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God: and the dead in
Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be
caught up together with them *in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air*:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
CL
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: The Rapture?? [Part 1]
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("CL")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:21:51 -0600
>
> 2Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not
> come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be
revealed,
> *the son of perdition;
>
> Here it is, that day shall not come except there come a falling away,
> FIRST, what day? The day of the gathering back to our Lord Jesus Christ,
the
> subject in verse 1! Let us examine this verse carefully. Here is the
> time a falling away first. falling away = Greek #646 = apostasia =
> defection from the truth; to be deceived;
No, the subject is not mentioned in vs 1!! In verse 1 Paul is simply
saying
"We beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by
our gathering together unto him," That is ALL of vs. 1!!
Vs 2 goes on to tell why they were troubled!
Vs 2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or troubled, neither by spirit,
not by word, not by letter, as from us, as that the day of Christ is at
hand (now present)." This is what they were troubled about.....they were
hearing people say that the day of the Lord had come.
Paul tells them not to be deceived in vs 3:
Vs 3: "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
except there be a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the
son of perdition:"
This word "falling away" is as you said in Greek "apostasia". The word is
defined as: defection from a state, separation as in divorce; from the root
aphistemi, to withdraw oneself, remove, to away, absent oneself from,
desert a station in life, depart;
In earlier versions of the bible the word apostasia was translated "the
departure". (The Geneva Bible, Tyndale's translation, Cranmer's version,
the Great Bible, Breechers Bible, The Coverdale Bible, and Beza'a
translation. The man of sin cannot be revealed until after "the
departure".
The Thessalonians were shaken because of great persectution and people
falsely teaching that they were experiencing the tribulation. Paul was
comforting them and reminding them that the Day of the Lord could not
happen, that the man of sin could not be revealed, until after "the
departure".
CL
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Pre-wrath Tribulation
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Jimmy")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:12:40 -0500
Matthew 24, also known as the Olivet Discourse, was the Lord's answer to
three questions posed by his disciples. He was returning from the Temple
mount after visiting the most glorious temple ever built for the Jews and
the disciples had commented about how glorious and beautiful it was. Christ
rebuked them and told them that not a stone would remain unturned and that
their focus should be on other things not those here on earth that will pass
away. The disciples asked -- When will this happen, what will be the signs
of the end, and when will these things be? The first and last question was
basically the same. However, the answer the Lord gave them pertained to the
tribulational period when the Jews (and other tribulation saints) would cry
out for their blood to be avenged. The Lord Jesus was telling them to -
watch for these things to happen. When you see these events, you'll know
the end (the end of the tribulation period) is near. That event is
signified by the second coming of the Lord Jesus and the establishment of
the millennial reign.
Does this help explain?
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - The Rapture
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Debi")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:42:54 -0600
CL,, Hello , I did not intend to upset any one, I was looking for truth
and when I saw this study I found it to be very enlightening. I just
thought I would share it here as there are so many different views and
only one is the right one. I for one want to know which one that is. My
eternal life depends on it and I will only take the word of God for it.
I hope we can continue to discuss this and other subjects with an open
mind,
my religious up- bringing taught me many things that were not the word
of God,, but mans word. I am finding this out more and more as I study
His word.
I do however tend to go with this study because when I read all the
scriptures myself and read what Christ said about it in the gospels, I
believe him to be on the mark. My concordance said the falling away was
a departure from truth.
I would like to believe that we the church, the body of Christ will be
taken out,(because it sounds like things could get ugly), but then who
are the ones that stay and witness for Him? The un believers wont have
a clue. Just trying to make since out of it all.
Look forward to hearing from you,, :-) Debbie
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Early Doctrines
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Debi")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:56:05 -0600
Does any one know of any sites or books that I could look up the early
church doctrines?? The study I sent said there was no teaching of this
Rapture before the 1830's. Just trying to check things out for myself. I
appreciate it, Thanks Debi
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - RE: The Rapture
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Jimmy")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:23:50 -0500
There will be two special witnesses, sent by God, to give the Gospel.
However the tribulation saints, 144,000 Jews and others, will also be able
to bear witness of the Gospel. We are told that they will pay with their
lives for their faithfulness. The two special witnesses will have great
powers but we are not told specifically who they will be (although there is
great speculation on who they MIGHT be!).
Jimmy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bpr-list@philologos.org [mailto:bpr-list@philologos.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 10:43 AM
> To: BPR Mailing List
> Subject: [BPR] - The Rapture
[..snip..]
> I would like to believe that we the church, the body of Christ will be
> taken out,(because it sounds like things could get ugly), but then who
> are the ones that stay and witness for Him? The un believers wont have
> a clue. Just trying to make since out of it all.
>
> Look forward to hearing from you,, :-) Debbie
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - The Rapture
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("CL")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:34:22 -0600
> CL,, Hello , I did not intend to upset any one, I was looking for truth
> and when I saw this study I found it to be very enlightening.
Oh no! I hope that I did not appear to be upset!! I don't believe you
have upset anyone, not me anyway! :)
[Mod Note: <g> I think it's the use of ! marks Debbie and CL that *sometimes*
gives the impression that one is upset. The context has to define what the ! is
expressing. Knowing CL somewhat, I knew how to interpret the ! <g>]
> I just
> thought I would share it here as there are so many different views and
> only one is the right one. I for one want to know which one that is.
Yes, amen! I too desire to know what the truth is.
[Mod Note: Now, this ! mark is easy to interpret. <g>]
> I hope we can continue to discuss this and other subjects with an open
> mind,
> my religious up- bringing taught me many things that were not the word
> of God,, but mans word. I am finding this out more and more as I study
> His word.
Yes! I hear you loud and clear.......the more I study the more I realize
that I have been taught many things that were man's conclusions.
> I do however tend to go with this study because when I read all the
> scriptures myself and read what Christ said about it in the gospels, I
> believe him to be on the mark. My concordance said the falling away was
> a departure from truth.
I felt that some of the things in this study were taken out of context,
like the passage I mentioned.
> I would like to believe that we the church, the body of Christ will be
> taken out,(because it sounds like things could get ugly), but then who
> are the ones that stay and witness for Him? The un believers wont have
> a clue. Just trying to make since out of it all.
I understand, there is so much to study. God is never without a witness in
the earth and when the church is taken out then it will be Israel that will
be a witness to the unbelievers. I believe there will also be many who
will become believers as a result of the rapture.
Once again, I am sorry if I appeared to be upset by anything you said.....I
was not upset.......just making a point. It is important that we study
carefully, and keep the word in context.
Watching & Praying,
CL
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Early Doctrines
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("CL")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:45:24 -0600
I did remember seeing an article about the teaching of which you speak
(that the rapture wasn't taught before 1830, etc. ) here:
http://www.novia.net/~todd/rap26.html
I don't know right off hand of any other sites that contain early church
doctrines but there are bound to be some out there <g>
CL
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Margaret McDonald
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:52:56 +0000
Hello Debi,
I thought I'd first post exactly what Margaret McDonald had
"prophesied" and then give a website:
====================
The following is Margaret Macdonald's account of her vision which ws
received in 1830. This is taken from Robert Norton's publication,
"Memoirs of James and George Macdonald, of Port Glasgow" (1840)
[quoted in "The Rapture" by Hal Lindsey].
"It was first the awful state of the land that was pressed upon me. I
saw the blindness and infatuation of the people to be very great. I
felt the cry of Liberty just to be the hiss of the serpent, to drown
them in perdition. It was just 'no God.' I repeated the words, Now
there is distress of nations, with perplexity, the seas and the waves
roaring, men's hearts failing them for fear--now look out for the
sign of the Son of man. Here I was made to stop and cry out, O it is
not known what the sign of the Son of man is; the people of God think
they are waiting, but they know not what it is. I felt this needed to
be revealed, and that there was great darkness and error about it;
but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light. I saw
it was just the Lord himself descending from Heaven with a shout,
just the glorified man, even Jesus; but that all must, as Stephen
was, be filled with the Holy Ghost, that they might look up, and see
the brightness of the Father's glory. I saw the error to be, that men
think that it will be something seen by the natural eye; but 'tis
spiritual discernment that is needed, the eye of God in his people.
Many passages were revealed, in a light in which I had not before
seen them. I repeated, 'Now is the kingdom of Heaven like unto ten
virgins, who went forth to meet the Bridegroom, five wise and five
foolish; they that were foolish took their lamps, but took no oil
with them, but they that were wise took oil in their vessels with
their lamps.' 'But be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will
of the Lord is; and be not drunk with wine wherein is excess, but be
filled with the Spirit.' This was the oil the wise virgins took in
their vessels--this is the light to be kept burning--the light of
God--that we may discern that which cometh not with observation to
the natural eye. Only those who have the light of God within them
will see the sign of his appearance. No need to follow them who say,
see here, or see there, for his day shall be as the lightning to
those in whom the living Christ is. 'Tis Christ in us that will lift
us up--he is the light--'tis only those that are alive in him that
will be caught up to meet him in the air. I saw that we must be in
the Spirit, that we might see spiritual things. John was in the
Spirit, when he saw a throne set in heaven.--But I saw that the glory
of the ministration of the Spirit had not been known. I repeated
frequently, but the spiritual temple must and shall be reared, and
the fulness of Christ be poured into his body, and then shall we be
caught up to meet him. Oh none will be counted worthy of this calling
but his body, which is the church, and which must be a candlestick
all of gold. I often said, Oh the glorious inbreaking of God which is
now about to burst on this earth; Oh the glorious temple which is now
about to be reared, the bride adorned for her husband; and Oh what a
holy, holy bride she must be, to be prepared for such a glorious
bridegroom. I said, Now shall the people of God have to do with
realities--now shall the glorious mystery of God in our nature be
known--now shall it be known what it is for man to be glorified. I
felt that the revelation of Jesus Christ had yet to be opened up--it
is not knowledge about God that it contains, but it is an entering
into God--I saw that there was a glorious breaking in of God to be. I
felt as Elijah, surrounded with chariots of fire. I saw as it were,
the spiritual temple reared, and the Head Stone brought forth with
shoutings of grace, grace, unto it. It was a glorious light above the
brightness of the sun, that shown round about me. I felt that those
who were filled with the Spirit could see spiritual things, and feel
walking in the midst of them, while those who had not the Spirit
could see nothing--so that two shall be in one bed, the one taken and
other left, because the one has the light of God within while the
other cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. I saw the people of God in an
awfully dangerous situation, surrounded by nets and entanglements,
about to be tried, and many about to be deceived and fall. Now will
the wicked be revealed, with all power and signs and lying wonders,
so that if it were possible the very elect will be deceived.--This is
the fiery trial which is to try us.--It will be for the purging and
purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus; but Oh it will be
a fiery trial. Every soul will be shaken to the very centre. The
enemy will try to shake in every thing we have believed--but the
trial of real faith will be found to honour and praise and glory.
Nothing but what is of God will stand. The stony-ground hearers will
be made manifest--the love of many will wax cold. I frequently said
that night, and often since, now shall the awful sight of a false
Christ be seen on this earth, and nothing but the living Christ in us
can detect this awful attempt of the enemy to deceive--for it is with
all deceivableness of unrighteousness he will work--he will have a
counterpart for every part of God's truth, and an imitation for every
work of the Spirit. The Spirit must and will be poured out on the
Church, that she may be purified and filled with God--and just in
proportion as the Spirit of God works, so will he--when our Lord
anoints men with power, so will he. This is particularly the nature
of the trial, through which those are to pass who will be counted
worthy to stand before the Son of man. There will be outward trial
too, but 'tis principally temptation. It is brought on by the
outpouring of the Spirit, and will just increase in proportion as the
Spirit is poured out. The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It
is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept. I
frequently said, Oh be filled with the Spirit--have the light of God
in you, that you may detect satan--be full of eyes within--be clay in
the hands of the potter--submit to be filled, filled with God. This
will build the temple. It is not by might nor by power, but by my
Spirit, saith the Lord. This will fit us to enter into the marriage
supper of the Lamb. I saw it to be the will of God that all should be
filled. But what hindered the real life of God from being received by
his people, was their turning from Jesus, who is the way to the
Father. They were not entering in by the door. For he is faithful who
hath said, by me if any man enter in he shall find pasture. They were
passing the cross, through which every drop of the Spirit of God
flows to us. All power that comes not through the blood of Christ is
not of God. When I say, they are looking from the cross, I feel that
there is much in it--they turn from the blood of the Lamb, by which
we overcome, and in which our robes are washed and made white. There
are low views of God's holiness, and a ceasing to condemn sin in the
flesh, and a looking from him who humbled himself, and made himself
of no reputation. Oh! It is needed, much needed at present, a leading
back to the cross. I saw that night, and often since, that there will
be an outpouring of the Spirit on the body, such as has not been, a
baptism of fire, that all the dross may be put away. Oh there must
and will be such an indwelling of the living God as has not been--the
servants of God sealed in their foreheads--great conformity to
Jesus--just the bride made comely, by his comeliness put upon her.
This is what we are at present made to pray much for, that speedily
we may all be made ready to meet our Lord in the air--and it will be.
Jesus wants his bride. His desire is toward us. He that shall come,
will come, and will not tarry. Amen and Amen. Even so come Lord
Jesus."
====================
Please see the "Rapture Ready" website for info on McDonald
http://www.novia.net/~todd/
Especially these files:
Is the Pre-Trib Rapture a Satanic Deception?
Thomas Ice
http://www.novia.net/~todd/tt11.html
Examining an Ancient Pre-Trib Rapture Statement
by Thomas Ice
http://www.novia.net/~todd/tt14.html
Morgan Edwards: Another Pre-Darby Rapturist
by Thomas Ice
http://www.novia.net/~todd/tt3.html
Margaret McDonald Who?
http://www.novia.net/~todd/rap26.html
I hope this helps,
Moza
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Witnesses?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("JM")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:10:03 -0500
Debbie wrote:
would like to believe that we the church, the body of Christ will be
taken out,(because it sounds like things could get ugly), but then who
are the ones that stay and witness for Him? The un believers wont have
a clue. Just trying to make since out of it all.
============================================================
Well, I have a bit of confusion about this myself. From what I
understand, the souls/people that are left are just out of luck. They
missed their last chance, so to speak, and therefore need no witnesses.
The "un believers" DID have a clue, before the rapture, and chose not to
follow the correct path.
But, on the other hand, I have heard or read somewhere that in the Bible
it says that Jeus or God wills that NO soul be lost. Thus it would seem
that He would provide some sort of witness to these poor souls for
future saving purposes. So I don't know. Anyone?
Julia
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - CL. Zach 14:4
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Bek")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:11:58 EST
In a message dated 1/27/99 5:11:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, bpr-
list@philologos.org CL writes:
<< The second coming of Christ is prophesied in Zechariah 14:
......vs 4: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
which is before Jerusalem on the east... >>
Hi, CL:
Thank you for your post. Upon reading it, I understand you adhere to the Pre-
Trib view which includes a 2-stage return of Christ:
Part A) Lord comes to the clouds to rapture the saints.
Part B) Lord comes to Mt. Olives 7 years later.
Although I do not support a 2-stage return of Christ but a single return "on
the last day", I am grateful to the Lord for granting you to post the Zach.
14:4 passage.
You see, yesterday when I was reading the passage about the Lamb standing on
Mt. Sion together with the 144K Isreali saints (Rev. 14), I wasn't able to
remember where in the OT had I read about the Lord standing on a Mt. upon His
return.
Well, less than 24 hours later, the Lord responded through you post. PRAISE
THE LORD!
Bek
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Difference between Second coming and Rapture
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Scott")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:01:37 -0800 (PST)
I believe that the Second Coming and the Rapture of the church are two
distinct phases of a single event in time. At the end of Daniel's
fortieth week (aka the Tribulation period), Jesus the true Messiah
will return in a literal, physical manner in order to set up His own
Kingdom on this Earth. This occurs during a time period known as the
Day of the Lord, in which those who are opposed to God will be judged
by God and punished by the Wrath of the Lamb. As we know the Church
is not subject to this "wrath," so before the Day of the Lord (if you
are pre-, mid- or pre-wrath)the Church must be raptured by Christ and
taken out of this world. Thus the Rapture and Second Coming are two
distinct events, but they part of a single process.
These are my beliefs, according to my understanding of Scripture,
however limited that may be. If anyone believes differently, I would
like them to respond so that I may understand completely.
However, I believe that this is one area where there needs to be
greater understanding and tolerance, because there are a great many
people, with deeply held beliefs. So I am in a search for truth, but
not alienation from other believers, based on their different views of
Scripture.
Scott Willmon
ewillmon@yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Early Doctrines
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Scott")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:08:09 -0800 (PST)
Debi:
Wheaton University maintains a Christian Classics Ethereal Library
that contains the writings of the Early Church Fathers. Check it out
at:
http://ccel.wheaton.edu/fathers
Scott
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - The Rapture?? [Part 1]
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Bek")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:48:19 EST
In a message dated 1/27/99 4:42:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, bpr-
list@philologos.org writes:
<< The word "Rapture" does not appear in the bible, no, not even
once. >>
Hi, dear ones:
Just for the record, this is, to my surprise, to confirm the above statement.
The Original Greek text of 1Thes. 4:17 gives the Greek word "harpazo,"
Strong's word G726, which means to seize (in various applications), catch
(away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).
Moreover, the Latin Vulgate rendering of the above passage uses the word
"rapiemur," and the Italian text uses the word "rapiti."
However, whether the word "rapture" is in Latin but not in Greek, the rapture
of the saints is inevitable; the rapture of the saints remains a Biblical
fact! Praise the Lord! "Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind,"
as Paul encouraged the Roman saints, that the Lord is coming to snatch the
redeemed and that "the pure in heart shall see God."
Before we become as Mr. Clinton trying to define what the word "is" is, let us
be focused on the facts of Christ for the glory of His return. After all,
"shall the trumpet be blown in a city, and the people not be afraid? Shall
evil befall a city, and Jehovah hath not done it? Surely the Lord Jehovah
will do nothing, except he reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets"
(Amos 3:6-7 ASV).
Goodness! I sure am having a good time with you all...
Bek
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - 6th & 7th trump The Rapture?? [Part 1]
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Bek")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:49:46 EST
In a message dated 1/27/99 4:42:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, bpr-
list@philologos.org writes:
<< Do a study on all the trumps in
the book of Revelation! When you are done with your study of the trumps you
will
find the 6th trump to be satan's followed by the 7th trump which is our Lord
Jesus Christ trump, the last trump. >>
Hi, I took your advice, and I did re-read the passage of the trumps focusing
on what the 6th and 7th trumpets announce.
Here is what I found.
The 6th trumpet contains:
a. The 2nd Woe out of 3.
b. The 4 angeles at the river Euphrates
c. The Gentiles take over Jerusalem for 3.5 years
d. The 2 witnesses prophesy in Jerusalem for 3.5 years
e. The Beast from the bottomless pit kills the 2 witnesses in Jerusalem
f. Three and a half days later, the 2 witnesses are resurrected and ascend
into heaven.
g. An Earthquake in Jerusalem killing 7 thousand and a tenth of the city
falls.
That's it.
The 7th trumpet contains:
a. The 24 elders sitting before God give Him praise, worship and thanksgiving
b. The temple in heaven is opened
c. The woman (Isreal) is nourished in the wilderness for 3.5 years
d. The beast from the sea with 7 heads receives power to do evil for 3.5
years
e. The beast makes war against the saints
f. Another beast from the earth with 2 lamb-like horns gives life to the
image of the beast
g. Worldwide mandatory beast worship
h. Worldwide mandatory beast mark or beast name or beast number received on
right hand or forehead
i. Lamb stands on Mt. Sion along with the 144K Isreali saints
j. The 4 warnings of the 4 angeles; "Blessed are the dead which die in the
Lord from henceforth..." is one of them (I guess there will be believers still
around during beast times.)
k. The harvest and the vintage
l. The 7 angeles with the 7 vials containing the 7 last plagues sing the Song
of Moses
m. The 7 vials are poured
n. The details of who is the Harlot and what is the beast
That's it.
Do you still believe "the 6th trump to be satan's" and "the 7th trump which is
our Lord
Jesus Christ trump?"
Bek
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Rapture Origins
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Debi")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:20:10 -0600
Here is a site I found today with some Rapture info on it. I have not
checked it out word for word but I am working on it. Thought some might
like to have a look. All I did was search Rapture. Debi
http://www.xmission.com/~gastown/revival/rapture.htm#2
Pre-Tribulationism was unknown to the early Church; in fact, no one has
been able to show that this particular doctrine was
held by any of the church Fathers or Biblical scholars before the early
nineteenth century. It apparently originated at this time
during a great revival of interest in Biblical prophecy. In 1830, a
young Scottish woman named Margaret McDonald claimed to
have received a "revelation" that Christians would be raptured before
the Great Tribulation. Shortly after this, the idea spread to
London where it aroused much interest. In further "revelations" during
this period, dates for the rapture were variously fixed
between 1835 and 1847!
Pre-Tribulationism was first taught publicly at a series of prophetic
meetings in Powerscourt House, Ireland. Here Plymouth
Brethren organizer John Darby took hold of the idea and made it an
essential element of his teachings, giving rise to what is now
known as Darbyism, or Dispensationalism. (For a full account see "The
Unbelievable Pre-Trib Origin" by Dave MacPherson.)
However, not all of the Brethren accepted this teaching. It was rejected
and opposed by such well known members as George
Mueller and Samuel P. Tregelles (both of whom broke with the Brethren
movement because of it). Among other men who
opposed this "novel two-phased-second coming" teaching as being
un-Scriptural was the Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon.
In spite of the opposition of such men, this doctrine crossed
denominational lines to spread throughout England. The greatest
growth of this teaching, however, has been in the twentieth century
mainly through the Modern Dispensational teachings of the
Scofield Reference Bible.
The reader may be interested to know where some of the well known and
influential church leaders and theologians have stood
on this issue. As previously stated, in examining the teachings and
writings from the first 1900 years of Christianity, we can find
no Pre-Tribulation doctrine, or interpretation of the Scriptures!
Consider for a moment some of the people of whom we are
speaking: Polycarp, Barnabas, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Augustine, Martin
Luther, John Calvin, Charles and John Wesley, Matthew
Henry, William Tyndale, John Wycliffe, George Whitefield, Jonathan
Edwards, John Knox, and Charles Finney.
In more recent and present times, a few of the men who have rejected
Pre-Tribulationism include: George Mueller, Samuel P.
Tregelles, Charles Spurgeon, William Booth, G. Campbell Morgan, W.E.
Blackstone (who changed from a leading
Pre-Tribulation proponent), H.H. Halley, A.B. Simpson, C.T. Studd, Leon
Morris, Oswald J. Smith, Francis Schaeffer, Peter
Marshall, J.B. Phillips, A.W. Pink, Paul S. Rees. and C.S. Lovett.
Some of the well known and influential Pre-Tribulationists include: J.N.
Darby, E.S. English, H.A. Ironside, J.D. Pentecost,
J.R. Rice, C.I. Scofield, H.C. Thiessen. R.A. Torrey, and J.F. Walvoord.
While such a list does not, of course, prove or disprove any doctrine,
it does illustrate that Pre-Tribulationism is a new doctrine,
unknown by the church until the last century, and that this doctrine has
not had universal acceptance.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Pre-wrath Tribulation
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Shelley")
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:02:59 -0900
In Matthew 24 where it mentions the sun darkening and the stars falling from
the sky, it goes on to talk about the coming of the Son of Man. In this
passage there is a parable regarding a fig tree ( in verse 32).
In Revelations 6, where this same event is mentioned (the sun darkening,
stars falling from the sky) a fig tree is also mentioned(verse 13). Is
there any significance here?
Just wondering,
Shelley
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Weekend News Today items (1/27)
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:01:26 +0000
A silicon chip that could be swallowed or implanted
Weekend News Today
By Staff Writer
Source: BBC
Wed Jan 27 , 1999 -- A silicon chip which releases pulses of
different drugs on demand is in prospect thanks to a new
microelectronic device. The MIT team believe bio-sensors on their chip
could release drugs. The chip would be swallowed or implanted.
Scientists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)have
successfully tested a tiny chip which contained 34 pinprick-sized
reservoirs. Each can hold 25 nanolitres of material. Zapping a
particular reservoir with a small voltage made its thin gold cover
dissolve and released the chemical inside.
The prototype chip is 17mm square but the researchers said they could
reduce the size of the chip to only two millimetres. There is also
the potential for more than 1,000 reservoirs if the reservoirs are
smaller. The chip is cheap- Langer and his team are making them in a
research lab for about $20 each. But he predicts larger-scale
production would drop the cost to a few dollars.
A microchip in televisions could someday release different scents
when different advertisements or scenes are viewed. The chip would be
triggered by remote control by a signal sent over the airwaves. The
MIT research was published in Nature.
Earthquake in New York???
Weekend News Today
By Staff Writer
Source: Earth Alert
Wed Jan 27 , 1999 -- A mild earthquake measuring a magnitude of
2.7 shook western New York on Monday, rattling windows and a few
nerves but causing no injuries or damage. The tremor was centered
northwest of the rural town of Leicester and could be felt within a
10-mile (16-km) radius. Its origin was about 11 miles (18 km) beneath
the earth's surface. Seismologists say that Monday's tremor was not
linked to the nearby Azko Nobel salt mine that began collapsing in
1994. A cave-in on March 12, 1994, big enough to cause tremors, led
to underground flooding that eventually closed the Manhattan-sized
mine, the biggest in the Americas.
US clergy recommend ending aid to Israel, Palestinians
Weekend News Today
By Andra Brack
Source: TampaBay Online (AP)
Wed Jan 27 , 1999 -- A group of American Roman Catholic,
Protestant and other clerics are recommending that the United States
cut off aid to both Israel and the Palestinians until they better
observe their people's human rights. A petition signed by more than
1,000 religious figures, including Catholic and Protestant bishops,
cites reports of abuses on both sides and urges Israel and the
Palestinian Authority to heed international law and human rights
conventions. Abuses ``preclude justice for Palestinians and security
for Israelis,'' the petition says.
The Search for Justice and Equality in Palestine/Israel, which says
it is dedicated to seeking Middle East peace, still is distributing
the document among religious leaders seeking signatures.
In addition to withholding aid, the petition asks the
Clinton administration to press both sides to support full
determination for Palestinians in a West Bank-Gaza state and a peace
that allows Israelis and Palestinians to share an undivided
Jerusalem. It also the administration to urge Israel to dismantle its
settlements where settlers are not willing to live as equals in a
Palestinian state.
Syria close to $2 Billion arms deal with Russia
Weekend News Today
By Andra Brack
Source: IsraelWire
Wed Jan 27 , 1999 -- News that Syrian Defense Minister Tlass plans
10-day visit to Moscow suggests the two sides are on the verge of
finalizing a much-anticipated deal which will greatly enhance Syria's
military capabilities, says strategic affairs analyst Qassem Mohammad
Jaafar. Syria's much-anticipated $2 billion arms deal with Russia,
which now appears on the verge of being finalized, will constitute a
strategic breakthrough for Damascus, according to Gulf-based
strategic affairs analyst Qassem Mohammad Jaafar. Even though Israel
would retain its huge military edge, Syria's first major weapons deal
with Russia, since the Soviet Union's demise, would be a vital step
toward redressing the balance of forces with the Jewish state.
In a Moscow-datelined dispatch, the paper quoted the Russian Interfax
news agency as saying Tlass and his aides would spend 10 days in
Russia, which it said suggested that "intensive talks"
would be held during the visit. Among the Russian weapons systems
Syria is reportedly interested in acquiring, Sukhoi-27 fighter
aircraft, T-80 tanks and S-300 anti- aircraft and anti-missile Sam
systems (NATO code name SA 10), which it noted were equivalent to the
US Patriot missiles Washington is supplying to Turkey. Al-Hayat said
the visiting Syrian officials would also discuss upgrading and/or
acquiring spare parts for Soviet-made weapons already in use by the
Syrian armed forces, including tanks and MiG-21, MiG-23 and MiG-29
fighters. Also, sources involved in the arms trade assaying Syria's
prospective deals with Russia could be worth up to $2 billion over a
five-year period, including immediate multi-million-dollar contracts
for the purchase of T-80 tanks.
News of Tlass's planned visit to Moscow, and his purported intention
to spend 10 days in the Russian capital, lends credence to earlier
reports suggesting that Damascus and Moscow have managed to iron out
the differences which held up the prospective arms deal. A deal in
the range of $2-to-3 billion has been in the making for two years, he
noted. Syria was reported to be mainly interested in acquiring the
S-300 Sam systems for its air defense command, the Sukhoi-27 for its
air force and the T-80 tanks for its army. In addition, as well as in
upgrading part of its aging Soviet arsenal --chiefly its T-55 and
T-62 tanks, and its MiG-21's, MiG-23's and air defense systems
generally. The MiG-29's deployed with the Syrian air force were
acquired in the late eighties and early nineties, just before the
breakup of the Soviet Union, and would not need upgrading, though
they presumably need spare parts, he explained.
If the new deal is finalized during Tlass's trip to Moscow, it would
be extremely significant for Syria on more than one count, Jaafar
said. Indeed, it would constitute a strategic breakthrough for
Damascus, he said. It would be the first major military deal Syria
has concluded with Russia since the demise of the Soviet Union, which
had been Syria's major arms supplier, marking the resumption of
strategic cooperation between Damascus and Moscow. In terms of
impact, the acquisition of modern, state-of-the-art weapons by the
Syrian armed forces would greatly enhance Syria's military
capability, Jaafar said. The Sukhoi-27 is widely regarded as
equivalent to, if not better than, the US-made F-15s in service with
Israel. The T-80 is one of the latest-generation tanks, while the
S-300 system would enable Syria to defend itself against both missile
and air strikes. Equally important would be the other aspect of the
deal, involving the supply of spare parts, the upgrading of weapons
systems and the support and modernization which Syria's armed forces
have sorely lacked for many years, Jaafar said.
Weekend News Today
http://upway.com/cgi-bin/went
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - More on Rapture
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Debi")
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:18:35 -0600
Reply I got on your posts.
My initial response is: If this is the case (below), why doesn't
Paul
use "harpazo" instead of "apostasia" as he did in 1 Thes.? Since
"harpazo" means "caught up" or gathered (picture a cattle round-up).
Why use two apparently very different words to describe the same
event?
Furthermore, it is my understanding that Paul used the same Greek
word
"apostasia" in 1 Tim 4:1
"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall
away (apostasia) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful
spirits
and doctrines of demons..." 1 Tim 4:1
However, in 1 Tim 4:1 Paul uses "depart from the faith" instead of
"depart" alone.
Thirdly, the Greek word used in 2 Thes 2:1 for $BEH(Bathering together$BG(Bis
$BEF(Bpisunagoge$BG(B (See below)
1997 episunagoge {ep-ee-soon-ag-o-gay'}
from 1996; TDNT - 7:841,1107; n f
AV - gathering together 1, assembling together 1; 2
1) a gathering together in one place
2) the (religious) assembly (of Christians)
The following is from a commentary on 2 Thes 2:1 from www.khouse.org
(which by the way is by in large pre-trib...and has an on-line
Strong$BCT(B Concordance)
ii. Some have suggested that the idea behind falling away really is
really a departure, in the sense of the rapture of the church; but a
departure implies that the one leaving does so of his own accord and
initiative, and this is not the case with the catching away of the
church; in addition, the word always - in the New Testament (Acts
21:21), or in the Septuagint - denotes something sinful and negative
Lastly, I think the preceding commentary rings true. If you look at
$BEI(Barpazo$BG
(B $BEF(Bpisunagoge$BG
(B and $BEB(Bpostasia$BG(B..meaning caught up,
gathered (together), and falling away (departure)
respectively...$BGB(Bpostasia$BG(Bhas a very different feel to the idea Paul
presented in 1 Cor 15:52 when (this) corruptible puts on the
incorruptible.
In Yeshua,
Rob
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - News: Global business summit weather woes
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:35:51 +0000
Blizzard hits Swiss ski resort at start of global business summit
Copyright 1999 Nando Media
Copyright 1999 Reuters News Service
By MICHAEL SHIELDS
DAVOS, Switzerland (January 28, 1999) - A fierce blizzard Thursday
hampered even the globe's movers and shakers as they fought to reach
the World Economic Forum's annual meeting in the Swiss Alps, a
week-long business summit.
The heaviest snowfall in some 15 years dumped about 12 inches of
snow on the mountaintop resort of Davos and grounded even the most
powerful figures, whose busy schedules dictate they normally swoop
into events by helicopter.
U.S. Vice President Al Gore, for instance, had to switch to the train
that snakes up the mountain from the valley floor below. "He
was planning to travel by helicopter, but the weather makes this
impossible," a U.S. embassy spokeswoman said.
Those who make it to the top delve into networking nirvana.
Some 1,000 corporate chieftains, 300 senior government officials
including 40 heads of state or government, and hundreds more
high-profile academics and media figures are scheduled to attend.
The conference kicks off on Thursday evening with opening addresses
from German President Roman Herzog and Swiss President Ruth Dreifuss.
It will feature talks by the likes of United Nations Secretary
General Kofi Annan and media mogul Ted Turner.
Billionaire computer mogul Bill Gates will again be on hand, as will
Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder
and South African President Nelson Mandela.
The problem was making it to the top.
The train was running and snowplows were keeping roads passable, but
several local ski slopes were closed amid heightened danger of
avalanches.
"People who rented big Mercedes without chains had problems. I hear
some were sent back down the mountain," one organiser said.
Meteorologists said the snow was set to continue.
"Clearing up today is hardly likely," said Andreas Horstettler at the
Swiss Meteorlogical Institute.
http://www.nandotimes.com/global/story/body/0,1025,12049-20446-149899-
0,00.html
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Israeli News, Jan 28
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:42:57 +0000
The information below is translated and prepared by:
Israel Government Press Office
<gponews@netvision.net.il>
PM NETANYAHU INTENDS TO ESTABLISH NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
(Communicated by Prime Minister's Media Adviser)
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced his
intention yesterday evening (Wednesday), 27.1.99, at a convention of
the Hadassahwomen's organization, to establish in the near future a
national security council to strengthen cooperation and coordination
between government bodies. The plan was formulated together with
Defense Minister Moshe Arens and Foreign Minister Ariel Sharon.
HEADLINES FROM THE HEBREW PRESS (edited)
HA'ARETZ
3. UNITED STATES SUSPECTS ISRAEL OF TRANSFERRING SECRET LASER
TECHNOLOGY DATA TO CHINA.
HATZOFEH
2. AMERICAN OFFER TO ISRAEL: HELICOPTERS WHICH IDF DOES NOT WANT,
BUT WHICH WILL HELP PRESIDENT CLINTON DURING TRIAL.
YEDIOT AHRONOT
3. DEADLY BUBONIC PLAGUE VIRUS KEPT IN ISRAELI LABORATORY -- IN
VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL TREATY.
Only US and Russia permitted to hold virus -- responsible for
killing tens of millions -- with commitment to destroy it by end of
1999. Virus secretly held, in unsecured laboratory, in heart of major
Israeli city. Health Ministry: Not working with virus.
SUMMARY OF EDITORIALS FROM THE HEBREW PRESS (edited)
Two papers discuss the situation in Jordan
Ma'ariv says that "Jordan is in a state of emergency," as a
result of King Hussein's continuing illness and the sudden
appointmentof his son Abdullah as crown prince in place of the
"experienced Hassan." "A dangerous period will have to pass until
Abdullah fills the vacuum that Hussein's departure from power leaves
behind. The street in Amman is tense and it seems that one match
would be enough to ignite it. And what is true for Jordan is also
true for the territories. Abdullah is married to a Palestinian, but
he has not yet gained the confidence of the Palestinians -- in Jordan
or in the territories. The dream of "Greater Palestine" on both sides
of the Jordan River is liable to be reawakened and to cause riots.
Israel cannot overtly intervene in what is happening in Jordan.
However, one must hope that Benjamin Netanyahu, Ariel Sharon and
Moshe Arens will make an effort to make it easier for Abdullah to
pass quietly through the upheavals taking place in the kingdom.
Hatzofeh expresses deep concern over the deterioration of King
Hussein's health and the shocks being felt in the Jordanian regime.
"Israel does not interfere in Jordan's internal affairs, as it does
not interfere in the internal affairs of other countries." At the same
time, says the paper, due to Jordan's proximity the government must
remain "alert and ready. It has already been proved in the past that
the simple fact of Israel's projecting readiness and alertness added
to stability in Jordan."
--------------------
TU B'SHVAT, 1999
The Jewish holiday of Tu B'Shvat -- the "15th day of (the Hebrew
month of) Shvat" -- will be celebrated from sunset on Sunday, 31.1.99,
until sunset on Monday, 1.2.99.
Also known as the "new year of the trees," Tu B'Shvat marks the
annual deadline for the various tithes and contributions of tree-grown
fruit, as mandated by the Torah. Other agricultural laws relating to
the fruit of trees also refer to this date. For example, the fruit of
trees which blossom before Tu B'Shvat cannot be tithed together with
fruit from trees blossoming thereafter.
While Tu B'Shvat is not marked in the synagogue by any special
prayers or scriptural readings, many communities have adopted various
customs to mark the holiday; the most prominent of these practices
involve planting new trees and eating fruit, with certain Ashkenazi
Jewish communities customarily eating 15 kinds of fruit. Many
Sephardic and Eastern Jewish communities conduct a ritual Seder Tu
B'Shvat at which the eating of various fruit is combined with
scriptural readings and special hymns, along the lines of the Passover
service.
Since the 19th century re-establishment of Jewish agricultural
communities in the Land of Israel, Tu B'Shvat has assumed added
significance, as the Land -- which was largely neglected and
mismanaged during centuries of exile -- has again became fertile and
prosperous. Both the Torah and the Prophets contain numerous
references connecting the revival of Jewish settlement in the Land of
Israel to its renewed agricultural fertility. Public Tu B'Shvat
tree-planting ceremonies, in which anyone may participate, will be
advertised in the press for several days prior to the holiday.
Tu B'Shvat is not a public holiday in Israel; offices and
services-- including public transportation -- will operate as usual.
Jerusalem, 27 January 1999
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Why Create Man ?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Donna")
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:59:40 -0600
As long as you are all feeling so talkative perhaps you could tackle a
couple of questions for me ?
DJ
> what do you think man's purpose is here on earth ? if God had
> angels why did he create men ? what need was there for men ?
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: 6th & 7th trump The Rapture?? [Part 1]
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Joel")
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:08:25 -0500
Hello,
My name is Joel and I would like to address the rapture talk.
As I read all of the e-mail from the BRP folks I can not help but ask
why all this
discussion on the rapture when it seems such a very small part in the
scope all God's word. The book of Revelation is intended as a means to
prepare us as for a time in history when there will be great unrest in
the world and God's people will be called to shed their blood for the
testimony of the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
There is much mystery in Revelation. Some things we know very clearly
what/who events are about, esp. because of where we are in history and
what we know is true because we see things that only a few years ago
seemed unreasonable. There is a large portion however, that we will
not know until the given time. Therefore, be prepared and have faith in
the true and living God that He will bring all these events to pass and
will also bring us to the foot of the throne on a great a glorious day.
According to His timing.
As we read history we often times look back and finally understand
God's hand in the given event
and we marvel. The book of Revelations is a marvel in and of it's self,
giving us a picture of events that are coming true and will continue to
come true. Many old testament prophets saw many of the same visions
John did, giving verification to John's vision. Often, not until events
where history did the people of God understand fully the picture God had
painted for us ahead of time.
Rev. 17 tells us these things take the mind of wisdom to understand or
to put it another way, things are not as they appear on the surface -
it takes years and hours of careful study to understand all that is
going on in world history through the eyes of God.
All of God's word can be traced back into history and all of it can be
proven. The places, the people, the history are all tangible
realities. We can go to the Holy Land and walk on the same paths that
the men and women of old walked on! They all had a place in our world
history and the same is true of the kings and beast (systems of evil)
who have deceived many by their wickedness not following God. They
will suffer great wrath for their deeds, esp. their wickedness towards
the people of God. There are reasons God gave us the genealogies and
the tables of genealogies in Gen. so we can understand where these
roots of evil came from and why there is and will be such great wrath.
All of the talk of when and if there is a rapture is interesting as all
of God's word is but I ask why spend so much time on a point that was
never a dwelled on as a big deal in the New Testament. It seems to me
the focus is - the reality that we will be with God in the end because
of the work of Christ and our faithfulness to the end - that is our
eternal hope!
It is by faith we except the bigger mystery that these events will
happen as laid out by God in Revelations as all God's word comes true -
but in God's timing. Until then, we have been given the bigger insight
- be prepared. For this message is consistent with God. The people of
God have always gone through hard times with the promise of something
far better on the other side.
It is just this tribulation, is the end of the world as we know it and
a bigger promise to us of faith for enduring through this section of
history than ever before.
This is not to say we should not study the word of God - just the
opposite - it is given to us to study and to know where we are in
history like Daniel did and like Daniel, we should take the knowledge
and use it to our advantage in preparing for the future. Not getting
hung up on minor details of how God is going to act but living with the
knowledge these are the signs for the coming of the Son of man. And
these signs are coming to past in our day.
He tells us not to be fearful but to prepare. So I ask again, why spend
so much energy on such a small point as the how God is going to rapture
the faithful or when? As a brother in Christ I would encourage all to
spend the energy in preparing yourself as a witness for our Lord for the
days that are before us, they will be hard - very hard and it will take
great courage to give our blood when asked to do so. Please let God do
His job of the timing and help one another for the days that we live in,
in the here and now.
Yours in the love of the Lord,
Joel
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - News: Muslims get cards to prove marriage
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:49:58 +0000
*** Muslims get cards to prove marriage
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) - Muslim couples married in the Malaysian
capital will be issued cards with computer chips so Islamic police can
instantly verify their vows, a newspaper reported Thursday. Under
Islamic law, unmarried couples can be charged with "khalwat" or "close
proximity" if caught in a room together. Islamic police often raid
rooms suspected of sheltering an unwed pair. Islamic law prohibits sex
outside marriage. Offenders are tried in Islamic courts and can face
up to two months in jail and a fine if convicted. Abdul Hamid Othman,
a minister in the prime minister's department, said the new cards,
which will replace marriage certificates as of Feb. 1, would come in
handy if a couple was mistakenly caught in a police raid. See
http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2558236329-4ee
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Why Create Man ?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Ed")
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:30:12 -0500
Hi DJ,
You moght want to read these three files at:
http://www.ncinter.net/~ejt/apostasy.htm
Part 1: Paul's Revelation Of God's Hidden Mystery
Part 2: Paul's Revelation Of God's Hidden Mystery (continued)
Part 3: Before The Creation Of The World
Scripture sums it up very well, I think, in these two sets of verses of
what God had in mind
from before the creation of the world:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the
world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus
Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that
love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 [The purpsoe being:] For whom he did foreknow, he also did
predestinate to be conformed
to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom
he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also
glorified.
Hope this helps....
Ed
At 11:59 AM 1/28/99 -0600, you wrote:
>As long as you are all feeling so talkative perhaps you could tackle a
>couple of questions for me ?
>
>DJ
>
>> what do you think man's purpose is here on earth ? if God had
>> angels why did he create men ? what need was there for men ?
>
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: 6th & 7th trump The Rapture?? [Part 1]
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Beverly")
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:42:32 -0500
JOel the point that so many people take the discussion of the rapture is
because so many people who once believed it are questioning it and anything
that is questioned deserves to be answered by the Word .
Yes people chat about the Rapture but the fact that they are
chattiing about it brings out the knowledge of the Word and the fact that
they are waiting for the LOrd to come .
Anyway that the Word is spoken is ok by me some may feel a great
exuberance or some may feel nothing or a bit perturbed , when anyone is
uptight about the fact that people discuss the Word be careful. Not one
single thought about the Word of God is a waste of time and perhaps
someone on this list may be homebound and cannot get out and bang on doors
as others so lets be a little compassionate. this may be the hope they have
"JUst a Spoken Word about the Lord."
You know God is a mystery too ,as is the rapture, so should we not
discuss Him?
PLease remember that all people are NOT on the same level of
understanding and perhaps this is the only discussion they will ever have
on the subject and you know what YOu cant make them think that they cannot
ask questions or they will never get to the knowledge that leads them
closer to Christ .I for one do not want to stand in the way of their
coming closer to Christ . Perhaps they will never ask others except online
because they will be shot down and made to feel dumb. I for one think that
this is a great opportunity for those that are homebound, timid , Lovers
of Christ in their hearts and not their lips.
----------
> From: "Joel" <bpr-list@philologos.org>
> To: BPR Mailing List <bpr-list@philologos.org>
> Subject: [BPR] - Re: 6th & 7th trump The Rapture?? [Part 1]
> Date: Thursday, January 28, 1999 1:08 PM
>
> Hello,
>
> My name is Joel and I would like to address the rapture talk.
>
> As I read all of the e-mail from the BRP folks I can not help but ask
> why all this
> discussion on the rapture when it seems such a very small part in the
> scope all God's word. The book of Revelation is intended as a means to
> prepare us as for a time in history when there will be great unrest in
> the world and God's people will be called to shed their blood for the
> testimony of the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
>
> There is much mystery in Revelation. Some things we know very clearly
> what/who events are about, esp. because of where we are in history and
> what we know is true because we see things that only a few years ago
> seemed unreasonable. There is a large portion however, that we will
> not know until the given time. Therefore, be prepared and have faith in
> the true and living God that He will bring all these events to pass and
> will also bring us to the foot of the throne on a great a glorious day.
> According to His timing.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Why Create Man ?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Donna")
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:13:35 -0600
The Old Testament contains many references to the Sons of God (ie.
angels, not man.)
So if he already had sons ... then he already had children and
brothers to Christ.
Why did he need or want man ? Why make man and why put him through
the trials of this fleshly existence ? What do man and angels have
to do with each other ?
DJ
Ed wrote:
>
> Hi DJ,
>
> You moght want to read these three files at:
>
> http://www.ncinter.net/~ejt/apostasy.htm
> Part 1: Paul's Revelation Of God's Hidden Mystery
> Part 2: Paul's Revelation Of God's Hidden Mystery (continued)
> Part 3: Before The Creation Of The World
>
> Scripture sums it up very well, I think, in these two sets of verses of
> what God had in mind
> from before the creation of the world:
>
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Microsoft Y2K Tools
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:57:22 +0000
---------------------
Microsoft's Y2K Tools
---------------------
In response to everyone's concerns about the "Y2K problem," Microsoft
is working on a free program called the "Microsoft Product Analyzer"
that
scans a user's hard drive to create an inventory of Microsoft
products, compares this inventory to the Microsoft year 2000
compliance product guides, identifies products (if any) for which
the user should download a free software update, and provides
URLs to enable the user to obtain the updates easily.
[quote taken from a Microsoft press release at
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1999/jan99/y2krespr.htm]
Now for the bad news: the Microsoft Product Analyzer does not actually
exist ... yet. Microsoft predicts that the free program will be
"available for distribution this quarter" (in other words, it will be
released sometime between now and April Fools Day). Of course, your
fearless bus driver plans to give you the Product Analyzer's URL as
soon as Microsoft releases it.
For those of you who like CD-ROMs, Microsoft has also created a free,
quarterly, Y2K Resource CD. Microsoft customers can subscribe to this
quarterly CD-ROM free of charge by calling (888) 673-8925 or by
filling out a free, online subscription form at
http://204.118.129.122/y2kcd/y2kcd.asp
http://204.118.129.122/y2kcd/y2kcd.asp
According to Microsoft,
distribution is available to US and Canada only. International
distribution channels for the English CD are currently being
developed, so please allow some delay in international shipments.
All this means is that everyone around the world is invited to fill
out this form, but it may take a little while for international
customers to receive their quarterly Microsoft Y2K Resource CD-ROMs.
Between you and me, this delay is not a great loss. According to
Microsoft, the first version of their CD-ROM, which is available now,
includes product guides, white papers and year 2000 information.
In the second quarter the CD will also include assessment tools
and information on how customers can address their end-to-end
year 2000 compliance challenge, including hardware, operating
system, applications, documents, custom code and data interfaces.
I hate to burst Microsoft's bubble, but unless you are either a
certified systems engineer or a SERIOUS computer wonk, do not expect
to find ANYTHING useful on Microsoft's first CD. The first CD is just
a "reprint" of the information on Microsoft's Y2K page
(http://www.microsoft.com/y2k), which is arguably one of the least
user-friendly Web sites in the world. The *second* CD-ROM, however,
will contain a free copy of the Microsoft Product Analyzer. :)
Tourbus Rider
Jan 29, 1999
http://www.tourbus.com
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Jan 29, 1999 TV Programs
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:01:00 +0000
7:00 PM Eastern
HIST - 20th CENTURY - Transplants: The Gift of Life.
9:00
PBS - NATIONAL DESK - "The Popular Culture: Who's to
Blame?" - David Steinberg talks with Hollywood talent about
popular culture.(CC)(TV14)
DISC - DISCOVERY NEWS - (CC)
10:00
CNN - COLD WAR - "China 1949-1972" - China under Mao; the
Sino-Soviet split; the Cultural Revolution; Nixon visits
China in 1972.(CC)
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Why Create Man ?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Joel")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:30:46 +0000
Hi Donna,
There is a wonderful book called The Sacred Romance by Brent Curtis
and John Eldridge
It is not a book on doctrin but it is wonderfully rich with docrtin.
The first chapter is a little soft - not quite sure where they are
heading but the rest is powerful. Answers many deep questions in a very
surprising way.
Later
Joel
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Mining Co Today items (1/29)
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:51:13 +0000
STOP GLOBAL WARMING: JUST ADD IRON
Can the Greenhouse Effect be countered by adding a nutrient cocktail
to ocean waters? Some scientists think so, and Ecology Guide Jim
Merickel is on top of the story.
http://ecology.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa012899.htm
* Developing countries largely unprepared for Y2K (CNN).
http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9901/27/y2k.thirdworld/index.html
* Kosovo crisis links, from World News Guide Keith Porter.
http://worldnews.miningco.com/msub17.htm
* Siberian fireball mystery, from Russia Guide Linda DeLaine.
http://russianculture.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa011899.htm
Mining Co. Today
Jan 29, 1999
http://www.miningco.com
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Why Create Man ?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("CL")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:41:03 -0600
>
> The Old Testament contains many references to the Sons of God (ie.
> angels, not man.)
> So if he already had sons ... then he already had children and
> brothers to Christ.
The word used for "sons" in the phrase "sons of God" is "ben". This word
can also be used to show characterisation, as in "sons of injustice" to
denote unrighteous men, or "sons of God" to refer to angels. John 3:16
calls Jesus God's "only begotten son".....so this alone would show that the
angels were not "brothers to Christ".
>
> Why did he need or want man ?
We know that God's ways are above our ways,and his thoughts are higher than
ours (Isaiah 55:9)..Romans 11:33 says that his judgments are unsearchable
and His ways past finding out!! But one thing we can know for sure from
scripture, and that is that man was created for His pleasure:
Revelation 4:11 - For thou has created all things, and for thy pleasure
they are and were created.
> Why make man and why put him through
> the trials of this fleshly existence ?
1 Peter 4:12,13: Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial
which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you; But
rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's suffering; that, when his
glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
>What do man and angels have
> to do with each other ?
>
Hebrews 1:13,14: But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my
right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all
ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of
salvation?
Psalm 34:7 The angel of the Lord ecampeth round about them that fear him,
and delivereth them.
Hope this answers some of your questions. :)
CL
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Jewish Wedding
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:42:12 +0000
Hi Susan,
> In my previous studies of the Rapture, I remember reading about the customs that
> the Jewish People followed regarding the Bridegroom and his Bride.
Please see BPR file:
Marriage
http://philologos.org/bpr/files/m-003-01.htm
I hope this helps,
Moza
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: 6th & 7th trump The Rapture?? [Part 1]
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Debi")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:57:03 -0600
Dear Joel, I understand what you are trying to say and certainly agree
nothing should keep us from the study of His word,, however the rapture
is no small detail and to think so one is only fooling himself. Jesus
warns us over and over that one will come and deceive many, even the
very elect if it were possible. MTT-24, Mark-13, Luke-17,, If you are
looking for the Christ to return first, but in fact we know it will be
satan first, standing where he ought not, saying he is God and showing
many signs and wonders, many people will be deceived. Instead of waiting
for the Husband, they will be whoring with satan, understanding these
events and time tables is a very important part of witnessing ,don't you
think?
I feel it is, or Jesus would not have warned us so strongly. Over in all
the gospels it is clear we will be here for the tribulation and be
delivered up for our Love of Christ and refusal to bow to Satan, but you
wont refuse satan if you are the ones deceived by thinking he is
Christ,,You better know for sure how its going to go because it is in
this generation. The generation of the fig tree, and I pray to God we
are all ready for it. Do you understand the parable of the fig tree?
Christ told us to Learn it (MK 13 v28.).
From your post it sounds as though you plan to be here through this
tribulation, but many don't, and it is a perfect set up for satan. It is
these that I worry about.
Anyway just letting you know why I feel it is important.
My prayers and love to you in Christ,, Debi
Joel wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> My name is Joel and I would like to address the rapture talk.
>
> As I read all of the e-mail from the BRP folks I can not help but ask
> why all this
> discussion on the rapture when it seems such a very small part in the
> scope all God's word. The book of Revelation is intended as a means to
> prepare us as for a time in history when there will be great unrest in
> the world and God's people will be called to shed their blood for the
> testimony of the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: 6th & 7th trump The Rapture?? [Part 1]
From: bpr-list@philologos.org
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:04:33 -0500
Hi guys...
Debi wrote to Joel:
> if it were possible. MTT-24, Mark-13, Luke-17,, If you are looking for
> the Christ to return first, but in fact we know it will be satan first,
> standing where he ought not, saying he is God and showing many signs and
> wonders, many people will be deceived. Instead of waiting for the Husband,
> they will be whoring with satan, understanding these events and time
Debi, your comment reminded me of something a friend of mine (who
believes in a pre-trib rapture) asked me once. I'll paraphrase it
somewhat, but here's the jest of her question: If the rapture is a
"snatching away" or a "gathering up" to meet the Lord in the air, then
won't I know when that happens? In other words, if my feet are still
on the ground, then the real Messiah ain't come yet and I'll know for
that reason alone not to follow some other person claiming to be
Christ. So does it really matter whether I believe the rapture is pre-
tribulation or post-tribulation? It seems the question should be whether
one actually believes *in* a rapture to begin with."
Interesting question I thought.... <g>
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: 6th & 7th trump The Rapture?? [Part 1]
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Susan")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:01:02 EST
Good morning in Christ,
I would just like to add my feelings to this subject. I am very interested
in the subject of end times prophecy. It was because of it that I was led to
the Lord. He used this subject to bring me into the fold. A very large part
of the Bible is prophecy. We, as Christians are not to be involved in vain
disputes, but learn for our edification. So therefore is this not an
excellent forum for this exchange of Bible knowledge on this subject?
Whether we believe in Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib or Post-Trib, we are to be watchful
and waiting for him to show ourselves approved at the time of His coming.
Yes, that is true. It is to us, the Christians, who are given the
responsibility to learn and to help others to come to a saving knowledge of
Jesus Christ. The Lord used this in my heart and life as He has many others.
We must learn about it through His Holy Word and through prayerful study so
that we may rightly divide His Word of Truth.
This discussion to me is of the utmost importance and I welcome it. The
world today is facing many perils. When we look at this lost and dying world,
and see the number of people involved in witchcraft, reading their daily
horoscopes, consulting mediums should we, as people of God not show them the
TRUE PROPHECIES OF THE LIVING GOD? The Lord has given us a mighty tool in the
power of HIS WORD. Let us use it MIGHTILY in HIS behalf.
We, the Christians, must learn the Scriptures and be informed so that we can
help the Lost. "Thy Word have I hid in my heart Lord that I might not sin
against thee." May the Lord bless this study to our hearts,
Susan
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Apostasy, the word
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Debi")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:13:59 -0600
Why I think apostasy is a falling away from the Word,, is the meaning of
this word important? I think so, since a lot of the rapture theory
depends on it.
By the way ,I believe these commentators are Rapturists. I must say
since my first post I have discovered a lot about this theory ,,none of
it follows the whole Word of God that I can see.
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive
you.
1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the
kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators,
nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves
with mankind,
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of
these things cometh the wrath of God upon the
children of disobedience.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter
times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to
seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times
shall come.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound
doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to
themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord
shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall
destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most
High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and
think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand
until a time and times and the dividing of time.
2Thess v 2 in greek,,2Th 2:3 Let [1818] (exapatao) no(Special C [3361]
(me)
man[5100] (tis)
deceive [1818] (exapatao(5661)
you[5209] (humas)
by[2596] (kata)
any[3367] (medeis)
means[5158]: (tropos)
for[3754] (hoti)
[that day shall not come],
except [3362] (ean me)
there come[2064] (erchomai)(5632)
a falling away[646] (apostasia)
first[4412], (proton)
and[2532] (kai)
that man
Matthew Henry<< A general apostasy, there would come a falling away
first, v. 3. By this apostasy we are not to understand a defection in
the
state, or from civil government, but in spiritual or religious matters,
from sound doctrine, instituted worship and church government,
and a holy life. The apostle speaks of some very great apostasy, not
only of some converted Jews or Gentiles, but such as should
be very general, though gradual, and should give occasion to the
revelation of rise of antichrist, that man of sin. >>>
David Guzik<<<< There must first be the falling away; the word here
indicates a rebellion, a departure, and there is debate as to if
it refers to an apostasy among those who once followed God, or
if to a general, world-wide rebellion (probably both;
there is evidence of both in the end times: 1 Timothy 4:1-3
and 2 Timothy 3:1-5; 4:3-4)
i. The article makes it even more significant; this is
not a falling away, but the falling away, the great and
final rebellion
ii. Some have suggested that the idea behind falling away
really is really a departure, in the sense of the
rapture of the church; but a departure implies that the
one leaving does so of his own accord and initiative,
and this is not the case with the catching away of the
church; in addition, the word always - in the New
Testament (Acts 21:21), or in the Septuagint - denotes
something sinful and negative>>>>>>
Now,, it would not be fair for me to leave this guy out,, on this
site,, only three commentarys.
ChuckSmith<<<<<<<<<<<<v.3 The "day" referred to here is the Day of
Judgment. "Falling away" comes from the Greek word for "depart." This
may refer to
the Rapture of the Church, for the Day of Judgment will come after the
Rapture. It may be a reference to people departing from
the faith, for Paul spoke of another departure (1 Timothy 4:1) and used
the same Greek word. However, in 1 Timothy Paul added
the words "depart from the faith" instead of "depart" alone.>>>>>>>>
Hope this helped those with questions like me. If any one would like to
talk privately my email is woliver@i-plus.net...
Still working on the trump study, will be back, Much love to you all ,,
Debi
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Jewish Wedding
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Susan")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:26:57 EST
Good morning!
Perhaps someone here can shed some light on this subject. In my previous
studies of the Rapture, I remember reading about the customs that the Jewish
People followed regarding the Bridegroom and his Bride. It was a very
interesting study in how it related to the Rapture and the Bridegroom (Christ)
returning to take His Bride (the True Church of Believers). I am going to
continue to look for the passages and the Bible Study but if anyone here
knows, it may get discussed a lot sooner. Thanks, Susan
Also thank you for forwarding the article that I requested.
[Mod Note: Oh, it was my pleasure Susan!]
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: 6th & 7th trump The Rapture?? [Part 1]
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Debi")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:49:30 -0600
You know I thought of that too, but satan is such a master at deception
I think he will have a good explanation as to why the plan was changed,,
don't you think so? This comment,,>>>> In other words, if my feet are still
> on the ground, then the real Messiah ain't come yet and I'll know for
> that reason alone not to follow some other person claiming to be
> Christ. <<<<
if it were that easy why were we warned?
Just thinking out load. :-) Debi
> Debi, your comment reminded me of something a friend of mine (who
> believes in a pre-trib rapture) asked me once. I'll paraphrase it
> somewhat, but here's the jest of her question: If the rapture is a
> "snatching away" or a "gathering up" to meet the Lord in the air, then
> won't I know when that happens? In other words, if my feet are still
> on the ground, then the real Messiah ain't come yet and I'll know for
> that reason alone not to follow some other person claiming to be
> Christ. So does it really matter whether I believe the rapture is pre-
> tribulation or post-tribulation? It seems the question should be whether
> one actually believes *in* a rapture to begin with."
>
> Interesting question I thought.... <g>
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Why Create Man ?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Nancy")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:09:09 -0800
Hello and God's blessings,
I read a book last year that magnified my perspective of our lives now in
this temperal world and then in eternity. It is " We Shall Judge Angeles"
by Harold J Chadwick.
It deal with understanding the mysteries of creation and eternity in light
of why we were created, why was sin permitted to enter the human race, and
many other thought provoking questions.
I would highly recommend this book. It is about 300 pages, but it took me a
while because I would reread certain chapters. I ordered it from Amazon
books
In Christ,
Nancy
-----Original Message-----
From: bpr-list@philologos.org [mailto:bpr-list@philologos.org]
Sent: Friday, January 29, 1999 5:41 AM
To: BPR Mailing List
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Why Create Man ?
>
> The Old Testament contains many references to the Sons of God (ie.
> angels, not man.)
> So if he already had sons ... then he already had children and
> brothers to Christ.
The word used for "sons" in the phrase "sons of God" is "ben". This word
can also be used to show characterisation, as in "sons of injustice" to
denote unrighteous men, or "sons of God" to refer to angels. John 3:16
calls Jesus God's "only begotten son".....so this alone would show that the
angels were not "brothers to Christ".
>
> Why did he need or want man ?
We know that God's ways are above our ways,and his thoughts are higher than
ours (Isaiah 55:9)..Romans 11:33 says that his judgments are unsearchable
and His ways past finding out!! But one thing we can know for sure from
scripture, and that is that man was created for His pleasure:
Revelation 4:11 - For thou has created all things, and for thy pleasure
they are and were created.
> Why make man and why put him through
> the trials of this fleshly existence ?
1 Peter 4:12,13: Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial
which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you; But
rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's suffering; that, when his
glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
>What do man and angels have
> to do with each other ?
>
Hebrews 1:13,14: But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my
right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all
ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of
salvation?
Psalm 34:7 The angel of the Lord ecampeth round about them that fear him,
and delivereth them.
Hope this answers some of your questions. :)
CL
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: 6th & 7th trump The Rapture?? [Part 1]
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Bek")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:41:44 EST
In a message dated 1/29/99 9:08:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, bpr-
list@philologos.org Debi writes:
<< Satan is such a master at deception
I think he will have a good explanation as to why the plan was changed,
don't you think so?>>
Yes, I can echo Debi's thoughts regarding de evil one being the master of
deception. The Lord Jesus said that false christs/prophets would arise and
deceive even the elect of God.
One may see a grayish development already: the Pre-Trib preachers don't agree
with the Post-Trib ones, among others for example; the views oppose each
other, yet both believe they will be in the rapture. Only one doctrine is
truthful, and one of the two sets will be confused or disappointed when they
see history didn't turn out as they sincerely believed and preached it would.
<<Your comment, "In other words, if my feet are still
on the ground, then the real Messiah ain't come yet and I'll know for
that reason alone not to follow some other person claiming to be
Christ." >>
By the same token, Pre-Trib rapture believers will be confused if or when they
see their feet "still on the ground" while the beast is mandating his mark on
all inhabitants. Some of them may seek "other preachers" for solutions to
their despair. Personally, I would listen to the preaching of the 2 witness
of God in Jerusalem if my feet are still on the ground. (The Lord have mercy
on me.) Out of "many false prophets arising in those days" only TWO prophets
will be of God. If the Lord Jesus said that false preachers would deceive
even the elect, then there will be elects in those days for false preachers to
deceive.
Well, dear ones, so much for two cents.
Bek
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Pre, Mid, Post Trib Does it matter?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Bek")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:36:19 EST
In a message dated 1/29/99 10:04:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, bpr-
list@philologos.org Susan writes:
<< Whether we believe in Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib or Post-Trib, we are to be
watchful
and waiting for him to show ourselves approved at the time of His coming. >>
In all respect to you, Susan, it is not healthy for the believer to believe
whatever is preached at a given congregation as long as the believer is, as
you say, "watchful and waiting" for the Lord.
As you may well know, the 5 virgins who were watching and waiting for the Lord
had not enough oil in their lamps, and they where NOT granted to enter into
the joys of the Husband because they delayed themselves purchasing more oil.
As a matter of fact, the Lord Jesus said that the Husband himself closed the
door on them.
If you notices,
a) these were virgins not defiled ones.
b) they knew the Lord was coming because they were waiting for Him
c) they had light in their lamps meaning they were not in darkness
d) they had fuel in their lamps, but NOT ENOUGH.
e) they had the knowledge where fuel is obtained
f) they had the willingness to go get more oil during the night, and they
did.
g) once the door was shut, none of the above mattered.
On the other hand, the Lord Jesus granted that one sinner crucified next to
him bold entrance into paradise. That defiled one had no lamp, no light, no
oil, yet he asked God to remember him, and the Lord did.
What may be learned from these examples is that it DOES MATTER what we
believe.
The 5 virgins believed that the Lord would wait on them while they went for
more oil. After all, they had been waiting for the Lord all along.
The repented sinner on that cross believed that his last chance for life was
the Lord because he believed the Lord would not die. Otherwise, if he thought
the Lord would die, he would not be asking Christ to remember him. Dead
people do not remember.
Therefore, it does matter what a believer believes. If the Pre-Trib rapture
is true, or if the Mid-Trib is true, or if the Post-Trib is true, or if the
Pre-Wrath is true, the other views are false. They all cannot be true because
they oppose each other.
A godly parent would teach his child what is truth. The child may go to
school and learn the details about the Theory of Evolution. It is still the
responsibility of the parent to teach the child the truth about Evolution; the
truth being that such theory is false.
Similarly, it is the responsibility of the believer to learn the truth of
"biblical" doctrines which are not necessarily true lest we are found waiting
for the Husband without enough oil.
I was once very fond of the Pre-Trib view until I began to seek the Lord in
the Bible. In the Word I learned that all I had believed to be true regarding
the rapture was not necessarily true; my respects to those who adhere to such
view. The Lord humbled my heart because He showed me how futile my heart can
be. Since then, I have become sensitive to what believers believe to be
truth, so that one doesn't glue oneself to anemic beliefs.
Well, so much for two cents.
Bek
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Why Create Man ?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Donna")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:21:33 -0600
Nancy wrote:
>
> Hello and God's blessings,
> I read a book last year that magnified my perspective of our lives now in
> this temperal world and then in eternity. It is " We Shall Judge Angeles"
> by Harold J Chadwick.
> It deal with understanding the mysteries of creation and eternity in light
> of why we were created, why was sin permitted to enter the human race, and
> many other thought provoking questions.
> I would highly recommend this book. It is about 300 pages, but it took me a
> while because I would reread certain chapters. I ordered it from Amazon
> books
> In Christ,
> Nancy
>
So sin did not originate with man, huh ? Angels sin or there'd be
no reason to judge. Of course Satan was an angel ...
Donna
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Pre, Mid, Post Trib Does it matter?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Susan")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:24:36 EST
Susan Said: Whether we believe in Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib or Post-Trib, we are to
be watchful and waiting for him to show ourselves approved at the time of His
coming. Yes, that is true. It is to us, the Christians, who are given the
responsibility to learn and to help others to come to a saving knowledge of
Jesus Christ. The Lord used this in my heart and life as He has many others.
We must learn about it through His Holy Word and through prayerful study so
that we may rightly divide His Word of Truth.
Bek said:
In all respect to you, Susan, it is not healthy for the believer to believe
whatever is preached at a given congregation as long as the believer is, as
you say, "watchful and waiting" for the Lord.
Susan replies:
Please note that at the finish of my paragraph I said that "We must learn
about it (meaning the Rapture) through His Holy Word and through Prayerful
study so that we may rightly divide His Word of Truth. I also stated how
important this study is in the Word of God. I do not believe that our Lord
would have us believe simply what Man would teach us. Man is fallible. We
must read His Holy Word and Prayerfully study it. It is by this that we may
make our decisions in the Lord based upon what is the Truth and not what Man
would have us believe. By prayerful study our Lord will reveal to us His
Truth. By this means, I will follow the Lord's leading in this study of the
Rapture of the Church (Body of Believers). I do believe that is very
important for us to learn the truth about the Rapture. It was because of my
learning about the Rapture and Bible Prophecy that I came to a saving
knowledge of Jesus Christ. It is a study precious to me. Through the years I
have learned more about it through the study of God's Word.
In some of the original posts on this subject I thought that the author was
questioning why there was so much discussion about it if it is only a small
portion of scripture. To me it is very precious. As a child in Christ, I was
taught only the Pre-Trib Rapture beliefs. As I grew in the Lord, I began to
study on my own and learned more about the subject.
If you felt that I meant otherwise I apologize.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Weekend News Today items (1/29)
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:57:38 +0000
Nevada hit by earthquakes
Weekend News Today
By Staff Writer
Source: Earth Alert Fri
Jan 29 , 1999 -- The strongest in a series of earthquakes to hit the
Nevada Test Site tipped over files and knocked pictures from walls
Wednesday at a remote facility in the state's Frenchman Flat area.
The magnitude-4.7 quake struck at 2:44 a.m. local time and follows
two tremors that struck the area on Monday. The quake spurred another
round of demands for nearby Yucca Mountain to be disqualified as a
place to store highly radioactive nuclear waste. "This is just
another serious warning about the unsuitability of the Yucca Mountain
site," says Rep. Jim Gibbons (R-Nev.). "I hope the Department of
Energy is taking seriously these early warning signs of geologic
instability in the area.
Powerful earthquake hits the coast of Alaska
Weekend News Today
By Staff Writer
Source: Earth Alert
Fri Jan 29, 1999 -- An earthquake measuring a magnitude of 6.4 struck
off the coast of Alaska in the Bering Sea on Thursday. The quake was
centered near the Fox and Aleutian Islands.
From Czech Republic to Russia's Pacific coast,eastern Europe hit by
flu epidemic
Weekend News Today
By Staff Writer
Source: Nando Times
Fri Jan 29 , 1999 -- A wave of influenza hit hundreds of thousands of
people from the Czech Republic to Russia's Pacific coast, Reuters
reported. Russian extreme nationalist leader Vladimir Zhirinovsky
deemed the situation so serious that he demanded restricted access to
the State Duma lower house of parliament. In Romania, warm weather
blamed for the outbreak was turning into a weekend blizzard.
In the Siberian region of Kemerevo, RIA news agency said all
secondary schools closed down. Nearly 400 people suffering from flu
visited one local hospital in the past three days alone. The Russian
Far East and the Siberian city of Irkutsk, near to Lake Baikal, were
also reportedly badly hit by the epidemic. Russia's southern neighbor
Ukraine registered 100,000 cases, more than twice last year's figure.
Three hundred schools were shut in eastern Donetsk region alone. A
further 54,000 cases were reported in ex-Soviet Belarus, a country of
only 10 million sandwiched between Russia and Poland, but authorities
said that was no different from normal and were ready for worse.
Officials in the Czech Republic proclaimed a country-wide epidemic
with two of every 100 people hit by a flu virus. Schools were closed
in some regions and hospital visits barred. Officials said
inoculations had proved ineffective as more and more people were
suffering from respiratory problems.
Similar problems were reported in the former Yugoslav republic of
Croatia, where an epidemiologist admitted that one in three people
who underwent inoculation might still catch flu.
Japan: Flu epidemic claims 96 lives; 26,000 become ill
Weekend News Today
By Staff Writer
Source: Nando Times
Fri Jan 29 , 1999 -- At least 96 people have died and
more than 26,000 have become ill in a flu epidemic sweeping Japan,
AFP reported. Although the flu epidemic was not as deadly as an
epidemic last year which left 1.27 million sick, the health ministry
was calling for special caution at schools and nursing homes.
Alaska shivers in coldest weather in a decade
Weekend News Today
By Staff Writer
Source: Yahoo! AP
Fri Jan 29 , 1999 -- January is supposed to be cold in
Alaska, but air temperatures have dropped to minus 70 degrees
Fahrenheit in the state's interior, with windchills plummeting to
minus 100 in the coldest weather in a decade, the National Weather
Service reports. "Every activity is a dangerous activity now in
northern Alaska," said Lee Kelley, meteorologist in charge of the
weather service office in Fairbanks. Alaska's current low record is
minus 80, set at Prospect Creek on Jan. 23, 1971. A blocking pattern
in the atmosphere is causing frigid air from Siberia to spill into
northern Alaska, Kelley explained, and as it spreads further to the
Southeast the cold will begin affecting more populated areas, such as
Fairbanks, where lows are expected to reach between minus 50 and
minus 65.
3 volcanoes threaten or erupt
Weekend News Today
By Andra Brack
Source: DiscoveryChannel Online
Fri Jan 29 , 1999 -- Nicaragua Volcano Threatens to Erupt:
Jan. 28, 1999 -- Nicaragua's Telica volcano threatened to erupt on
Wednesday, prompting authorities to declare a state of alarm and
prepare to evacuate residents living near the volcano. Around 500
micro-earthquakes a day have been registered recently around the
3,500-foot (1,060-meter) volcano, which is located about 55 miles (90
km)northwest of the Nicaraguan capital of Managua. Telica is the sixth
most active volcano in the country and has erupted 21 times this
century. It last erupted in 1987.
Popocatepetl Erupts Again:
Jan. 28, 1999 -- Mexico's famed Popocatepetl Volcano sent another
huge plume of ash soaring into the sky southeast of Mexico City on
Wednesday. The eruption was accompanied by several strong volcanic
tremors, and disaster officials raised the alert level to yellow for
residents living around the mountain. A red alert would result in the
immediate evacuation of thousands of people near the flanks of the
towering mountain. The 40-minute eruption resulted in a rain of ash on
some communities to the northeast of Popocatepetl.
Etna Eruption:
Jan. 25, 1999 -- Italy's Mount Etna erupted on Saturday, spewing ash
and lava into the sky but posing no danger to local residents. Etna,
Europe's largest volcano, emitted a column of smoke more than 1/2
mile (1 km) into the sky from its 11,000-foot (3,340-meter) peak.
Italian vulcanologists say the volcano's current activity is just a
continuation of the mountain's recent eruptive phase. The last
significant eruption occurred in 1991, when authorities had to guide
the lava flow near Etna by dynamiting the flanks of its peak.
Weekend News Today
http://upway.com/cgi-bin/went
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Jewish weddings
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Anonymous")
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:15:17 -0500
The enclosed page is untitled but it should help you out alot
concerning
jewish weddings.
Prayers for you and yours,Sky
http://members.aol.com/gkilli4/home/wedding.html
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Apostasy, the word
From: bpr-list@philologos.org
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:03:31 -0500
Debi wrote:
> Why I think apostasy is a falling away from the Word,, is the meaning of
> this word important? I think so, since a lot of the rapture theory
Hi Debi... here are some more comments or definitions of the word
"apostasy" to add to your "collection." <g>
First of all, a personal observation:
Strong's: 646. apostasia, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; fem. of the same as G647;
defection from truth (prop. the state) ["apostasy"]:--falling away,
forsake.
Notice that the word is "feminine of the same as G647." Let's look at
G647: apostasion, ap-os-tas'-ee-on; neut. of a (presumed) adj. from a
der. of G868; prop. something separative, i.e. (spec.) divorce:--(writing
of) divorcement.
The word "divorce" caught my eye.
Now on to other commentaries -- some agree that it's a departure from
God or faith in God, while others say it's a staying away from or
rejecting God -- a subtle, but yet important difference I believe.
The Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible, edited by Spiros Zodhiates: "In
the majority of occasions, the verb [apostasia] is intrans. meaning that
person does not depart from where he is, to go somewhere else, but
stays away, having chosen from the beginning to stay away, not to
believe instead of believing....In 2 Thess 2:3 the word apostasia does
not refer to the Christians who would depart from the faith, but those
would reject Christ."
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: "Apostasy - 'a standing
away from'): I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection...In classical
Greek, apostasy signified revolt from a military commander. In the
roman catholic church it denotes abandonment of religious orders;
renunciation of ecclesiastical authority; defection from the faith. The
persecutions of the early Christian centuries forced many to deny
Christian discipleship and to signify their apostasy by offering
incense to a heathen deity or blaspheming the name of Christ.
[Interesting!] The emperor Julian, who probably never vitally
embraced the Christian faith, is known in history as 'the Apostate,'
having renounced Christianity for paganism soon after his accession
to the throne..."
The New Unger's Bible Dictionary: "Apostasy as the act of a
professed Christian, who knowingly and deliberately rejects revealed
truth regarding the deity of Christ (1 John 4:1-3) and redemption
through His atoning sacrifice (Philippians 3:18; 2 Peter 2:1) is different
from error, which may be the result of ignorance (Acts 19:1-6), or
heresy, which may be the result of falling into the snare of Satan (2
Timothy 2:25-26)...Apostates apparently can only be professors and
not actual possessors of true salvation, otherwise their defection
would incur severe chastening or, if this failed to restore them,
untimely (physical) death (1 Corinthians 5:5; 11:32; 1 John 5:16)."
IVP Bible Background Commentary: New Testament - "The first
prerequisite is either the "rebellion" (niv, nrsv, tev) or the "apostasy"
(nasb). If it is a "rebellion" against God, it is the world's final insult to
him ...; if "apostasy," it refers back to Jesus' sayings later written in
Matthew 24:10-13....
Holman Bible Dictionary: "The Old Testament speaks of "falling
away" in terms of a person's deserting to a foreign king (2 Kings
25:11; Jer. 37:13-14; 39:9; 52:15)."
Easton's Bible Dictionary: "Idolatry, covetousness, and apostasy are
spoken of as adultery spiritually (Jer. 3:6, 8, 9; Ezek. 16:32; Hos. 1, 2, 3
Rev. 2:22). An apostate church is an adulteress (Isa. 1:21; Ezek. 23:4, 7,
37), and the Jews are styled "an adulterous generation" (Matt. 12:39)."
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Why Create Man ?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Nancy")
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:22:32 -0800
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art
thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou
hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne
above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation,
in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:12-14 (KJV)
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou
wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the
midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day
that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude
of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and
thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain
of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the
stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou
hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to
the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou
hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the
iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst
of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth
in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among
the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never
shalt thou be any more.
Ezek 28:14-19 (KJV)
Hi Donna,
Yes, I would say from reading the above verses, we would have to conclude
that sin originated with Lucifer/Satan... I believe that God created in His
wisdom with our frailites, so we can truly know that we can only live " in
Christ" and it is ONLY by His power that we are strong.
We are literally dirt, but by giving our lives to Christ as our Lord, we
become reflections of God's grace, mercy and love so He truly will get the
glory.
In Christ,
Nancy
>
So sin did not originate with man, huh ? Angels sin or there'd be
no reason to judge. Of course Satan was an angel ...
Donna
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Why Create Man ?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Donna")
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:36:30 -0600
Yes, I agree ... so okay ... if God already had one fallen creation
why did he create another one ? And why send a savior for the 2nd
fallen creature and not the first ? He already had a creation
that sang his praises and glorified him ... it was fallen but why
couldn't he have saved it the way he saved the 2nd ?
Clearly, the phrase "sons of God" does not mean flesh man. Here
they present themselves to God and Satan stands among them as one of
the sons. Not the "begotten" son ... but as a son.
Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present
themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
(KJV)
God later asks Job where where you when I was creating all this
stuff ?. One of the things that he asks about is where were you,
Job, when the sons of God shouted for joy ? Clearly man was not
around when the things that God describes were happening, the
creation process at it's beginning.
Job 38:4-7
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare,
if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath
stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the
corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God
shouted for joy?
(KJV)
And here a distinction is made between the "sons of God" and the
"daughters of men". The words sons of God are "baneey- haa-'Elohiym
'et-" and the words "daughters of men" are "banowt haa'aadaam" (or a
facsimile thereof.) More correctly they are the sons of God and the
daughters of the man, Adam. I'm no language scholar but I
understand the phrase "haa'aadaam" is more correctly translated "the
man, Adam" as in a specific man ... the man formed in Genesis 2.
Clearly the "sons of God" phrase did not mean flesh man here either.
Gen 6:1-4
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the
earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for
that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty
years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that,
when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they
bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old,
men of renown.
(KJV)
So we know we have the sons of God ... and sin was found among
them. So then God created the earth and put a flesh man in it ...
and he sinned, too ... but God provided a saviour for this flesh man
and a later apostle would tell man he would judge angels.
So I'm thinking ... if you are an all-knowing God ... and you
already had one sinful creation ... why create another one ? And
why provide a saviour for one and not the other ? And why use the
2nd sinful creation to judge the first ?
Donna
> Hi Donna,
> Yes, I would say from reading the above verses, we would have to conclude
> that sin originated with Lucifer/Satan... I believe that God created in His
> wisdom with our frailites, so we can truly know that we can only live " in
> Christ" and it is ONLY by His power that we are strong.
> We are literally dirt, but by giving our lives to Christ as our Lord, we
> become reflections of God's grace, mercy and love so He truly will get the
> glory.
> In Christ,
> Nancy
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
=========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Jewish Wedding
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Donna")
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:27:08 -0600
Why would you want to base your theology on something that is not present in the
bible ?
I thin that is a bit dangerous.
DJ
Susan wrote:
> Good morning!
> Perhaps someone here can shed some light on this subject. In my previous
> studies of the Rapture, I remember reading about the customs that the Jewish
> People followed regarding the Bridegroom and his Bride. It was a very
> interesting study in how it related to the Rapture and the Bridegroom (Christ)
> returning to take His Bride (the True Church of Believers). I am going to
> continue to look for the passages and the Bible Study but if anyone here
> knows, it may get discussed a lot sooner. Thanks, Susan
>
> Also thank you Ronni for forwarding the article that I requested.
>
> [Mod Note: Oh, it was my pleasure Susan!]
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - News: Pope to release first record for Easter
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:01:27 +0000
Pope to release first record for Easter
Copyright 1999 by Agence France-Presse
FRANKFURT, Germany Jan 26 (AFP) - Pope John Paul II has cut his first
album, a mixture of contemporary music, prayers and psalms recited in
Latin, Italian, French, English and Spanish, his label Sony said
Tuesday.
The compact disc, entitled Abba Pater, will be released on March 23,
in time for Easter.
The 78-year pope calls for charity, forgiveness and reconciliation
through biblical texts on the recording.
One of the tracks on the album, produced by Sony Classical, will be
launched on the Internet and is set to be followed up with a video.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Why Create Man ?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Bek")
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:55:06 EST
In a message dated 1/31/99 5:04:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, bpr-
list@philologos.org Donna writes:
<< if God already had one fallen creation
why did he create another one ? >>
God did not create another "fallen creation," as you suggest. Regarding the
creation of man in God's own image, Genesis 1:31 reads: "And God saw
everything that he had made, and, indeed, it was very good."
God creates "very good" stuff; it is the thinking ability of man in
combination with man's free will to do evil which jeopardized creation to
include man himself.
God created skin tissue on man; man tattoos it.
God created a nose on man; man pierces it.
God created blood in man; man drugs it.
God created brain tissue in man; man drugs it the same.
God created free will in man to choose good or evil; man choose evil, of
course.
The same applies to Lucifer, the fallen angel. God created him good as light,
but Lucifer became proud and wanted to be "as God." Since he didn't get his
way, he decided to become evil. God did not create evilness in Lucifer nor in
man.
We allow evil in our hearts because we want to be powerful "as God" too. We,
like all the demons, don't want to be humble nor entreatable nor simple as
little children. We don't want to worship our Maker; on the contrary, we want
to be worship while our Maker leaves us alone. In fact, we want to be worship
so much that we convince ourselves nobody made us after all. Oh no, we
"evolved" ourselves.
God did not create rebellion. Man chooses to rebel. The Lord have much mercy
on us!
Okay, Donna, thank you for your post. In Christ, there is hope for the
hopeless. Let us be glad for the Lord is bringing His people to the perfect
man through Christ.
Bek
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Why send a Savior?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Bek")
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:17:17 EST
In a message dated 1/31/99 5:04:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, bpr-
list@philologos.org Donna writes:
<< Why [would God] send a savior for the 2nd fallen creature and not the
first? He already had a creation that sang his praises and glorified him
... it was fallen but why
couldn't he have saved it the way he saved the 2nd ? >>
Perhaps He did. God has not informed whether or not Angelhood NEEDS salvation
through a Savior in the same manner as man. God did spare His creation of
Angeles since we know about them to be existing as we speak. Lucifer and the
evil Angeles, the fallen creation, will be eliminated in the Lake of Fire
while the remaining Angeles, the non-fallen ones, will coexist with the
redeemed of the Lord.
I don't know what genetic materials compose Angeles; perhaps none known to
mankind, but I do know man needs a Savior because "flesh and blood cannot
inherit the kingdom of God" (1Cor 15:50). The Lord Jesus said: "Those who
are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead,"
would no longer die, "for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God,
being sons of the resurrection." (Luke 20:35-36 NKJV)
Only dying beings need salvation. If Angeles cannot die, they wouldn't be
needing salvation in the way man needs salvation. Just as the Levites did not
obtain land when the 12 Tribes allotted the Promised Land because the Levites'
inheritance was the Lord God Himself, so the Angeles may have "salvation" or
the privilege to live in the presence of God by God Himself.
Okay, Donna, I'm enjoying reading your thoughts. Grace upon grace be with you
as with me.
Bek
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Sundials and Bible Scholars
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Donna")
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:50:55 -0600
"For it is not by fleshly wisdom that the "words which the Holy
Ghost
teacheth" are to be understood. The natural man cannot understand
the Word of God. It is foolishness unto him. A man may admire a
sun-dial, he may marvel at its use, and appreciate the cleverness of
its design; he may be interested in its carved-work, or wonder at
the mosaics or other beauties which adorn its structure: but, if he
holds a lamp in his hand or any other light emanating from himself
or from this world, he can make it any hour he pleases, and he will
never be able to tell the time of day. Nothing but the light from
God's sun in the Heavens can tell him that. So it is with the Word
of God. The natural man may admire its structure, or be interested
in its statements; he may study its geography, its history, yea,
even its prophecy; but none of these things will reveal to him his
relation to time and eternity. Nothing but the light that cometh
from Heaven. Nothing but the Sun of Righteousness can tell him that.
It may be said of the Bible, therefore, as it is of the New
Jerusalem -- "The Lamb is the light thereof." The Holy Spirit's work
in this world is to lead to Christ, to glorify Christ. The
Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit; and the same Spirit that
inspired the words in the Book must inspire its truths in our
hearts, for they can and must be " Spiritually discerned " (I Cor.
2:1-16)."
E.W. Bullinger
From "The Ground is Thirsty" (on figures of speech)
http://www.catalog.com/cgibin/var/pwm/articles/figures.html
I thought this was an apt illustration of Bullinger's and it really
shows why one must be careful who one studies with. You can study
the bible with a learned scholar but if he does not have the light
of the Holy Spirit in him then you might as well be trying to tell
time with the shadow cast on a sundial by a man holding a lamp. It
really doesn't matter how interested the man is in the sundial
and/or telling time or how long he looks at it. What matters is the
source of illumination he depends on.
It's one reason why I don't put a whole lot of stock in seminarial
or other educational degrees but rather am drawn to teachers who
display evidence of the Holy Spirit. It's also a reason why I shy
away from the use of commentaries and looking too closely at the
traditions of man ... we're 2000 years away from Christian truth and
4000 years away from Mosaic truth and 6000 years away from Adamic
truth ... Satan has had a lot of time to "change the times and
seasons" as the bible told us he would. I feel more comfortable
relying on the Holy Spirit to teach me rather than man. Even in the
apostle's day, not 90 years from the birth of Christ, false
teachings were creeping into the church and the apostles were
preaching specific messages designed to combat them. It only makes
sense that we should individually examine what is taught today and
what is believed today and seek the truth from the Lord. Who has
been writing my Sunday School lessons ? Who taught my pastor what
he knows ? Was it a man of the Spirit or just a man "learned in the
scriptures" ? If I had lived in Jesus' time would I rather have
been taught by the scribes of his day or by Christ himself ?
Just pondering. I was just reading the above article and thought
I'd share the sundial quote because it was interesting.
Donna
----------------------------------------------------:)
Are our lives more shaped by those who love us
or by those who refuse to love us ?
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Why send a Savior?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Donna")
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:51:18 -0600
Bek wrote:
> Only dying beings need salvation. If Angeles cannot die, they wouldn't be
> needing salvation in the way man needs salvation. Just as the Levites did not
> obtain land when the 12 Tribes allotted the Promised Land because the Levites'
> inheritance was the Lord God Himself, so the Angeles may have "salvation" or
> the privilege to live in the presence of God by God Himself.
>
> Okay, Donna, I'm enjoying reading your thoughts. Grace upon grace be with you
> as with me.
> Bek
>
>
Well thanks.
I believe Satan (who is an angel and apparently a son of God) can
die because he is sentenced to death. God said he would turn him to
ashes and destroy him. (Ezek 28:18)
He doesn't have any possibility of salvation ... he's under a death
sentence already.
Donna
--
----------------------------------------------------:)
Are our lives more shaped by those who love us
or by those who refuse to love us ?
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Why Create Man ?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Donna")
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:00:11 -0600
Bek wrote:
> God did not create rebellion. Man chooses to rebel. The Lord have much mercy
> on us!
> Okay, Donna, thank you for your post. In Christ, there is hope for the
> hopeless. Let us be glad for the Lord is bringing His people to the perfect
> man through Christ.
>
> Bek
I agree. Don't get stuck on my poor way of expressing my thoughts.
But God is omniscient. He knew that man would rebel ... he already
had a plan in place to deal with it. Why create again if you
already know the creation will rebel ?
Donna
----------------------------------------------------:)
Are our lives more shaped by those who love us
or by those who refuse to love us ?
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Y2K Headlines
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Moza")
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:29:06 +0000
NINETEEN STATES TO MOBILIZE NATIONAL GUARD
Link: http://insidedenver.com/business/0125guar0.shtml
FEDS PLAN Y2K SPIN CONTROL
Link: http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/17527.html
FEMA'S Y2K WORKSHOPS TO BEGIN
Link: http://www.fema.gov/y2k/99011.htm
RUSSIA SEES TRANSPORT PROBLEMS FROM MILLENNIUM BUG
Link: http://www.bostonherald.com/bostonherald/nat/transport01271999.htm
INVENTOR PATENTS "FIRST YEAR 2000 SILVER BULLET"
QIPP process: http://www.doitnow.com/~commtec
QIPP patent: http://www.qpat.com
Link: http://www.year2000.com/releases/NFsilver01_25_1999.html
UNITED, DELTA MOVE TO PREVENT Y2K LOSSES
Link: http://www.latimes.com/CNS_DAYS/990123/t000006898.html
Y2K DRIVING SOME BUSINESSES UNDER
Link: http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9901/23/prodigy.shutdown.01.ap/index.html
Link: http://www2.startribune.com/cgi-bin/stOnLine/article?thisStory=70681886
AUSTRALIAN HOSPITALS FAIL Y2K TEST
Link: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/state/4227351.htm
MILLENNIUM BUG STRIKES UNIVERSITY OF ALBERTA
Link: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/alberta/011399ab2.html
UTILITY BILLING DISRUPTED IN COLORADO
Link: http://www.denverpost.com/news/y2k/y2k0128.htm
DATE-BUG WARNING FOR VISUAL BASIC
Link: http://www.computerweekly.co.uk/cwarchive/news/19990128/cwcontainer.asp?name=B3.html
WALL STREET & Y2K
Link: http://www.y2ktimebomb.com/DSA/VP/vp9904.htm
NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE OFFICER TESTIFIES ON Y2K
Link: http://www.house.gov/reform/gmit/hearings/testimony/990120lg.htm
CADILLAC Y2K LETTER A HOAX
Link: http://www.y2ktimebomb.com/Computech/Issues/lcore9904.htm
A "NEW" SOLUTION FOR Y2K-INDUCED POWER OUTAGES
Link: http://sa.mlive.com/aroundhouse/stories/19980216heaters.html
Ventless heater website: http://gasgiant.ppages.com/ventless.html
Link: http://www.y2ktimebomb.com/Tip/Lord/lord9902.htm
YEAR 2000 BUG BYTES WEEKLY
Bug Bytes: http://www.year2000.com/y2kbugbytes.html
Year 2000 Information Center: http://www.year2000.com/
VITAL POWER SUPPLY
Link: http://www.homestead.com/Vital/VPSfront_ns4.htm
BREAK FREE FROM THE POWER GRID
Alternative Energy Systems website: http://www.aesms.com
TurboGenerator website: http://www.sonat.com/home/sps/products.htm
Link: http://www.arizonacentral.com/business/0124turbo.shtml
------------
wild2k (Y2K):
http://www.wild2k.com/
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Why Create Man to Rebel ?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Bek")
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:22:50 EST
In a message dated 1/31/99 1:51:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, bpr-
list@philologos.org Donna writes:
<< He [God] knew that man would rebel ... he already
had a plan in place to deal with it. Why create again if [God]
already know the creation will rebel ? >>
I think God knew (knows) what His creation is capable of doing, but that
doesn't necessarily means His creation will always do well and be holy.
For example, a know very well what a 3-year-old is capable of doing; that
toddler is capable of lying, capable of a fuss to get his way or rebel,
capable of selfish behavior: "Mine" behavior, etc. In other words, I know
the toddler is capable of rebellion without the parent teaching the toddler
how to rebel. What I don't know is if that toddler will choose to continue
sinning as an adult or will the toddler grow to seek the Lord's holiness.
Similarly, the Lord made Adam and Eve knowing what they were capable of doing.
The Lord did not teach them how to disobey nor how to blame another to justify
oneself. (Remember, Eve blamed the serpent and Adam blamed God in "the woman
that you gave me made me do it.) In other words, the Lord knew that what He
was creating is capable of disobeying, but that doesn't mean the Lord created
them so that they would disobey and later forgive them through Christ.
I may be mistaken in the following, but I think the Calvinist movement adheres
to Predestination. The thought that from the beginning of creation, God
predestined man to sin, some to die and others to salvation; God knew from the
beginning of creation who would be saved and who would be annihilated since
God knew man would rebel.
Oh, well. I really "don't know much of about History," as the song goes, but
your thinking and questions stimulate my thinking...
By the way, I do agree with your post on "why need a Savior."
Bek
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: [BPR] - Re: Sundials and Bible Scholars
From: bpr-list@philologos.org("Bek")
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:36:18 EST
In a message dated 1/31/99 11:29:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, bpr-
list@philologos.org Donna writes:
<< we're 2000 years away from Christian truth and
4000 years away from Mosaic truth and 6000 years away from Adamic
truth ... >>
Wow, that thought should really make a believer jump for joy because that
means we are now 6000 years closer to meeting the Lord and all departed
saints!
Yes, the late E.W. Bullinger is a godly, for God is a God of the living. In
this I know when the Spirit of the Lord excercised a man in that even after
that man's death, he still communicates LIFE!
Let us all be diligent to live for the Lord in such a way that even after our
death we may communicate the Lord's life.
Bek
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
Please be advised that this domain (Philologos.org) does not endorse 100 per cent any link contained herein. This forum is for the dissemination of pertinent information on an end-times biblical theme which includes many disturbing, unethical, immoral, etc. topics and should be viewed with a mature, discerning eye.