To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Four
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:37:14 -0500
From: "Donna J. Berkley" <donnaberkley@sprintmail.com>
Alan,
Another grouping of FOUR are the tools that Satan uses to bring
about apostacy. Politics, Religion, Education and Economics.
Donna
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: Four
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 23:30:47 -0700
From: Darlise <shadowkeep@powernet.net>
I understand the first three but why economics?
Darlise
BPR wrote:
> From: "Donna J. Berkley" <donnaberkley@sprintmail.com>
>
> Alan,
>
> Another grouping of FOUR are the tools that Satan uses to bring
> about apostacy. Politics, Religion, Education and Economics.
>
> Donna
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: Four
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:56:58 -0500
From: "Donna J. Berkley" <donnaberkley@sprintmail.com>
Mammon is a god to many people, materialism is their top priority.
Look at the Clinton scandals ... Americans aren't saying "get that
immoral, corrupt man out of office" ... most of them are saying "stop
wasting our money".
You don't have to control the military or the government to control a
country ... all you have to do is control the economic system ... when
you control that, you have the populace in bondage. Are we really
free today ? Most people are like me and must work to pay a house
payment and monthly bills. The less debt you have, the less in bondage
you are to the financial system. If you have some savings you have
choices ... but when you have only debt you have very little choice at
all. I think it is very important for Christians to get as much out of
debt as they can so that Satan cannot use the economic system to control
them so easily.
It goes so much deeper than that. Look at this World Federal Reserve
Bank they are trying to set up now. Our national Fed Bank controls
our economy and thereby controls the politicians in our country ... and
by extension, the populace. If and when a WFRB is set up it will be a
private organization not a governmental organization just like ours ...
and in the hands of the rich and powerful. So who will be in control
then ? And the world will be under the thumb of those that control
it.
Much of the great decisions and events of history were triggered by
either religious ideals or economic needs.
An interesting thing to look into is the MAI or Multilateral Agreement
on Investment that they are working on.
Donna
> From: Darlise <shadowkeep@powernet.net>
>
> I understand the first three but why economics?
>
> Darlise
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: The Mark of the Beast
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:43:35 -0700
From: Darlise <shadowkeep@powernet.net>
Hi,
I just thought that I would jump in on this interesting conversation, hope you do
not mind. Donna, your comment on the mark being spiritual is interesting. I am
not sure as to how it could be spiritual. The description of it being on the right
hand or forehead appears to be more physical than spiritual to me. I do not
believe that it will be force but it will be coercion. Spiritual to me is the
acceptance of Jesus as you must do that within your heart and therefore an inward
action. Let me know what you think.
Darlise
BPR wrote:
> From: "Donna J. Berkley" <donnaberkley@sprintmail.com>
>
> That's okay CL.
>
> I don't think it will be forced either because I do not think God is talking
> about a physical mark. I think it is a spiritual sign or seal of ownership ...
> it's an indication of who you belong to. A slaver's mark. Anyway I think it
> is a spiritual thing and that all these great "marking" schemes are
> razzle-dazzle to keep people from putting their focus where it needs to be ...
> on where their heart is, what it is set on ... or to put it another way ...
> where their treasure is laid up.
>
> I'm always open to the possibility I might be wrong, of course, so I like to
> keep up with what's going on in that area also.
>
> Donna
>
> BPR wrote:
>
> > From: skip007@sprynet.com
> >
> > Hi Donna,
> > Sorry about not making mention of the two candlesticks also, I think that
> > the candlesticks also point towards the two witnesses being Hebrews, as the
> > candlesticks would be placed INSIDE the temple.
> >
> > Also, about the mark of the beast, I agree with Shelley that it will be
> > something that will be chosen by each individual and not something that can
> > be forced on people. If it could be forced on people then who would be
> > martyred?!
> >
> > CL
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: BPR <bpr-list@philologos.org>
> > > To: BPR Mailing List <bpr-list@philologos.org>
> > > Subject: Re: The Mark of the Beast
> > > Date: Friday, September 25, 1998 4:30 PM
> > >
> > > From: "Donna J. Berkley" <donnaberkley@sprintmail.com>
> > >
> > > CL ... what about the two candlesticks ? Candlesticks seem to be
> > > churches if we take our cue from the first few chapters of
> > > Revelation ... perhaps the 2 churches Christ didn't have any
> > > negatives to say about ?
> > >
> > > It says the olive trees AND the candlesticks ... I can never get
> > > anybody to tell me about the candlesticks ... any thoughts ?
> > >
> > > Donna
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > BPR wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: skip007@sprynet.com
> > > >
> > > > Just my two cents about the two witnesses...
> > > > Rev 11:4 "These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks
> > standing
> > > > before the God of the earth."
> > > > I believe that the reference to "olive trees" would point to these men
> > > > being Hebrews.
> > > > Also, in Matthew 17 we see Moses and Elijah standing with the Lord.
> > > > During Moses ministry the plagues on Egypt occured and through the
> > ministry
> > > > of Elijah the rain was stopped. These are precisely the same things we
> > see
> > > > happen at the hands of the two witnesses.
> > > > Personally I believe the two witnesses are Moses and Elijah.
> > > >
> > > > God bless,
> > > > CL
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------:)
> > >
> > > "A weapon is best applied in the manner for which
> > > it was designed. So it is with the Sword of the
> > > Spirit, the Word of God, designed to be applied in
> > > love not brute force." (BTH 1998)
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: The Mark of the Beast
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 09:17:47 -0500
From: "Donna J. Berkley" <donnaberkley@sprintmail.com>
Well, I believe the manuscripts say "in the forehand" and "in the hand" ...rather than
"on".
"The forehead" seems to me to be a euphemism or metaphor used in the bible for "in the
mind" and "in the right hand" seems also to be an idiom for "the power hand" or the
"hand that does the work" or "the hand that reaches and/or grasps".
I believe that the Jewish tradition of binding OT bible verses into phylacteries on
their foreheads and hands is a clue to the real meaning of that verse. The idea seems
to me to be that the scriptures should be absorbed into the mind ... literally bound
into it ... and ingrained in the wearer such that the hand would do only God's work.
It was a physical representation of the spiritual concept that God was trying to get
across to them ... as much of the OT commandments and injunctions were. Paul tells us
that the OT people experienced things so that they could serve as "ensamples" for us.
From the site ... http://www.stg.brown.edu/projects/mss/overview.html
"The Dead Sea region has now yielded the earliest phylactery remains, both of the
leather containers and the inscribed strips of parchment. As a rule, phylacteries
include the same four selections, two from the book of Exodus (Exod. 13:1-10; 13:11-16)
and two from Deuteronomy (Deut. 6:4-9; 11:13-21). The scriptural verses were penned in
clear minuscule characters on the elongated writing material, which was folded over to
fit the minute compartments stamped into the containers." (notes in my bible also
confirm this.)
Notice what Exod 13:16 says in particular:
15 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the
firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast:
therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the
firstborn of my children I redeem.
16 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes:
for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt.
(KJV)
The Exodus scriptures bound in the phylacteries are about the significance of Passover
and a reminder that the firstborn males were required as a sacrifice but that Lord hath
redeemed all of his firstborn children. This is a foreshadowing of Christ and what his
sacrifice means to us. Christ is the kinsman redeemer.
---------------
Deut 6:4-9
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and
with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when
thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest
down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets
between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
(KJV)
----------------
Notice that they were commanded to do this for a sign. A sign to whom ? And what
did he command ? That the Israelites teach their children to LOVE GOD ... the ONLY
GOD. Why ? I think because it was a warning to us to remember our God and not to
fall for the one that is coming before Christ returns. God wanted this ingrained in
the minds and hearts of his people so that they would never forget it. He didn't want
them to be deceived into worshipping Satan or doing his work in the latter days. All
that happened to ancient Israel and all that it's people did and accomplished were
signs for us so that we'd know what to expect and how to interpret events in our day.
Paul told us that and we should not overlook it.
---------------
Deut 11:13-21
13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which
I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart
and with all your soul,
14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the
latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.
15 And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be
full.
---------------
Don't forget that Amos 8 tells us that the famine in the end times is for the Word of
God and not for bread. I believe what God is saying here was physically for them but
spiritually was for us and means that if you do not forget me I will make sure you
still have "food" in the latter days. The events of the OT were PHYSICAL events given
as signs and ensamples for us and Paul explained them in terms of their SPIRITUAL
significance.
---------------
16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and
serve other gods, and worship them;
---------------
Here is the warning ... the thing that God is trying to keep us from doing.
---------------
17 And then the LORD's wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that
there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly
from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.
---------------
And if we begin worshipping other than him then his "manna", his Word will dry up from
among us. And hasn't it done that ?
How many churches do you know that teach object lessons and moral stories rather than
going through the Word of God as it was intended ? God intended us to read ALL of his
word and not isolated verses picked out to suit some man's idea of a moral object
lesson. If you don't read the whole word the way it was written you can't fit the
pieces together that God wants you to see.
---------------
18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind
them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine
house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20 And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:
21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which
the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.
(KJV)
----------------
And here again the command to make sure you know these things with your mind and do
them with your hand ... to bind them to hand and forehead as a sign so that you and
subsequent generations will always remember them.
The dictionary in my bible says that the greek word which is "phylactery", (worn on
forehead and left arm (near the heart)), means "to defend" or "to guard" and that it
leads one to assume that they were originally worn in the belief that they would
protect or guard the wearer from harm.
Oh well, I just think these were meant as lessons to us and have direct bearing on the
mark in the forehead and the mark in the right hand. Like I said before ... I think
the physical commotion about the "mark" is razzle-dazzle to cause people to focus on
the physical and not the spiritual ... to make us focus on the physical "war" and not
the spiritual ... but I always keep remembering that the "gospel armour" that we are
told to put on is spiritual.
Donna
BPR wrote:
> From: Darlise <shadowkeep@powernet.net>
>
> Hi,
>
> I just thought that I would jump in on this interesting conversation, hope you do
> not mind. Donna, your comment on the mark being spiritual is interesting. I am
> not sure as to how it could be spiritual. The description of it being on the right
> hand or forehead appears to be more physical than spiritual to me. I do not
> believe that it will be force but it will be coercion. Spiritual to me is the
> acceptance of Jesus as you must do that within your heart and therefore an inward
> action. Let me know what you think.
>
> Darlise
>
> BPR wrote:
>
> > From: "Donna J. Berkley" <donnaberkley@sprintmail.com>
> >
> > That's okay CL.
> >
> > I don't think it will be forced either because I do not think God is talking
> > about a physical mark. I think it is a spiritual sign or seal of ownership ...
> > it's an indication of who you belong to. A slaver's mark. Anyway I think it
> > is a spiritual thing and that all these great "marking" schemes are
> > razzle-dazzle to keep people from putting their focus where it needs to be ...
> > on where their heart is, what it is set on ... or to put it another way ...
> > where their treasure is laid up.
> >
> > I'm always open to the possibility I might be wrong, of course, so I like to
> > keep up with what's going on in that area also.
> >
> > Donna
> >
> > BPR wrote:
> >
> > > From: skip007@sprynet.com
> > >
> > > Hi Donna,
> > > Sorry about not making mention of the two candlesticks also, I think that
> > > the candlesticks also point towards the two witnesses being Hebrews, as the
> > > candlesticks would be placed INSIDE the temple.
> > >
> > > Also, about the mark of the beast, I agree with Shelley that it will be
> > > something that will be chosen by each individual and not something that can
> > > be forced on people. If it could be forced on people then who would be
> > > martyred?!
> > >
> > > CL
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > > From: BPR <bpr-list@philologos.org>
> > > > To: BPR Mailing List <bpr-list@philologos.org>
> > > > Subject: Re: The Mark of the Beast
> > > > Date: Friday, September 25, 1998 4:30 PM
> > > >
> > > > From: "Donna J. Berkley" <donnaberkley@sprintmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > CL ... what about the two candlesticks ? Candlesticks seem to be
> > > > churches if we take our cue from the first few chapters of
> > > > Revelation ... perhaps the 2 churches Christ didn't have any
> > > > negatives to say about ?
> > > >
> > > > It says the olive trees AND the candlesticks ... I can never get
> > > > anybody to tell me about the candlesticks ... any thoughts ?
> > > >
> > > > Donna
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > BPR wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > From: skip007@sprynet.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my two cents about the two witnesses...
> > > > > Rev 11:4 "These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks
> > > standing
> > > > > before the God of the earth."
> > > > > I believe that the reference to "olive trees" would point to these men
> > > > > being Hebrews.
> > > > > Also, in Matthew 17 we see Moses and Elijah standing with the Lord.
> > > > > During Moses ministry the plagues on Egypt occured and through the
> > > ministry
> > > > > of Elijah the rain was stopped. These are precisely the same things we
> > > see
> > > > > happen at the hands of the two witnesses.
> > > > > Personally I believe the two witnesses are Moses and Elijah.
> > > > >
> > > > > God bless,
> > > > > CL
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------:)
> > > >
> > > > "A weapon is best applied in the manner for which
> > > > it was designed. So it is with the Sword of the
> > > > Spirit, the Word of God, designed to be applied in
> > > > love not brute force." (BTH 1998)
>
> --- BPR
>
> BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: The Mark of the Beast
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:51:08 -0500
From: skip007@sprynet.com
Hi All,
The scripture does say "in" the forehead and "in" the hand rather than on.
The word "mark" is "charagma" and literally means a stamp or an imprinted
mark, a mark branded upon horses, something carved or inscribed. This
sounds physical. Also, in verse 14:9 we read "And the third angel followed
them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image
(spiritual), AND receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand
(physical)..."
Also, back in verse 13:16,17 it says "And he causes all, both small and
great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand
or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had
the mark, or the number of the beast, or the number of his name." --This
again sounds physical as it will be the evidence of what qualifies one to
buy or sell.
CL
----------
> From: BPR <bpr-list@philologos.org>
> To: BPR Mailing List <bpr-list@philologos.org>
> Subject: Re: The Mark of the Beast
> Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 9:17 AM
>
> From: "Donna J. Berkley" <donnaberkley@sprintmail.com>
>
> Well, I believe the manuscripts say "in the forehand" and "in the hand"
..rather than
> "on".
>
> "The forehead" seems to me to be a euphemism or metaphor used in the
bible for "in the
> mind" and "in the right hand" seems also to be an idiom for "the power
hand" or the
> "hand that does the work" or "the hand that reaches and/or grasps".
>
> I believe that the Jewish tradition of binding OT bible verses into
phylacteries on
> their foreheads and hands is a clue to the real meaning of that verse.
The idea seems
> to me to be that the scriptures should be absorbed into the mind ...
literally bound
> into it ... and ingrained in the wearer such that the hand would do only
God's work.
> It was a physical representation of the spiritual concept that God was
trying to get
> across to them ... as much of the OT commandments and injunctions were.
Paul tells us
> that the OT people experienced things so that they could serve as
"ensamples" for us.
>
> >From the site ... http://www.stg.brown.edu/projects/mss/overview.html
>
> "The Dead Sea region has now yielded the earliest phylactery remains,
both of the
> leather containers and the inscribed strips of parchment. As a rule,
phylacteries
> include the same four selections, two from the book of Exodus (Exod.
13:1-10; 13:11-16)
> and two from Deuteronomy (Deut. 6:4-9; 11:13-21). The scriptural verses
were penned in
> clear minuscule characters on the elongated writing material, which was
folded over to
> fit the minute compartments stamped into the containers." (notes in my
bible also
> confirm this.)
>
> Notice what Exod 13:16 says in particular:
>
> 15 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the
LORD slew all the
> firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the
firstborn of beast:
> therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being
males; but all the
> firstborn of my children I redeem.
> 16 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between
thine eyes:
> for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt.
> (KJV)
>
> The Exodus scriptures bound in the phylacteries are about the
significance of Passover
> and a reminder that the firstborn males were required as a sacrifice but
that Lord hath
> redeemed all of his firstborn children. This is a foreshadowing of
Christ and what his
> sacrifice means to us. Christ is the kinsman redeemer.
>
> ---------------
> Deut 6:4-9
> 4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
> 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all
thy soul, and
> with all thy might.
> 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine
heart:
> 7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk
of them when
> thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when
thou liest
> down, and when thou risest up.
> 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be
as frontlets
> between thine eyes.
> 9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy
gates.
> (KJV)
> ----------------
>
> Notice that they were commanded to do this for a sign. A sign to whom ?
And what
> did he command ? That the Israelites teach their children to LOVE GOD
.. the ONLY
> GOD. Why ? I think because it was a warning to us to remember our
God and not to
> fall for the one that is coming before Christ returns. God wanted this
ingrained in
> the minds and hearts of his people so that they would never forget it.
He didn't want
> them to be deceived into worshipping Satan or doing his work in the
latter days. All
> that happened to ancient Israel and all that it's people did and
accomplished were
> signs for us so that we'd know what to expect and how to interpret events
in our day.
> Paul told us that and we should not overlook it.
>
> ---------------
> Deut 11:13-21
> 13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my
commandments which
> I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with
all your heart
> and with all your soul,
> 14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the
first rain and the
> latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine
oil.
> 15 And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest
eat and be
> full.
> ---------------
>
> Don't forget that Amos 8 tells us that the famine in the end times is for
the Word of
> God and not for bread. I believe what God is saying here was physically
for them but
> spiritually was for us and means that if you do not forget me I will make
sure you
> still have "food" in the latter days. The events of the OT were
PHYSICAL events given
> as signs and ensamples for us and Paul explained them in terms of their
SPIRITUAL
> significance.
>
> ---------------
> 16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn
aside, and
> serve other gods, and worship them;
> ---------------
>
> Here is the warning ... the thing that God is trying to keep us from
doing.
>
> ---------------
> 17 And then the LORD's wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the
heaven, that
> there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye
perish quickly
> from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.
> ---------------
>
> And if we begin worshipping other than him then his "manna", his Word
will dry up from
> among us. And hasn't it done that ?
> How many churches do you know that teach object lessons and moral stories
rather than
> going through the Word of God as it was intended ? God intended us to
read ALL of his
> word and not isolated verses picked out to suit some man's idea of a
moral object
> lesson. If you don't read the whole word the way it was written you
can't fit the
> pieces together that God wants you to see.
>
> ---------------
> 18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your
soul, and bind
> them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between
your eyes.
> 19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou
sittest in thine
> house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when
thou risest up.
>
> 20 And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon
thy gates:
> 21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in
the land which
> the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon
the earth.
> (KJV)
> ----------------
>
> And here again the command to make sure you know these things with your
mind and do
> them with your hand ... to bind them to hand and forehead as a sign so
that you and
> subsequent generations will always remember them.
>
> The dictionary in my bible says that the greek word which is
"phylactery", (worn on
> forehead and left arm (near the heart)), means "to defend" or "to guard"
and that it
> leads one to assume that they were originally worn in the belief that
they would
> protect or guard the wearer from harm.
>
> Oh well, I just think these were meant as lessons to us and have direct
bearing on the
> mark in the forehead and the mark in the right hand. Like I said before
.. I think
> the physical commotion about the "mark" is razzle-dazzle to cause people
to focus on
> the physical and not the spiritual ... to make us focus on the physical
"war" and not
> the spiritual ... but I always keep remembering that the "gospel armour"
that we are
> told to put on is spiritual.
>
> Donna
>
>
> BPR wrote:
>
> > From: Darlise <shadowkeep@powernet.net>
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just thought that I would jump in on this interesting conversation,
hope you do
> > not mind. Donna, your comment on the mark being spiritual is
interesting. I am
> > not sure as to how it could be spiritual. The description of it being
on the right
> > hand or forehead appears to be more physical than spiritual to me. I
do not
> > believe that it will be force but it will be coercion. Spiritual to me
is the
> > acceptance of Jesus as you must do that within your heart and therefore
an inward
> > action. Let me know what you think.
> >
> > Darlise
> >
> > BPR wrote:
> >
> > > From: "Donna J. Berkley" <donnaberkley@sprintmail.com>
> > >
> > > That's okay CL.
> > >
> > > I don't think it will be forced either because I do not think God is
talking
> > > about a physical mark. I think it is a spiritual sign or seal of
ownership ...
> > > it's an indication of who you belong to. A slaver's mark. Anyway
I think it
> > > is a spiritual thing and that all these great "marking" schemes are
> > > razzle-dazzle to keep people from putting their focus where it needs
to be ...
> > > on where their heart is, what it is set on ... or to put it another
way ...
> > > where their treasure is laid up.
> > >
> > > I'm always open to the possibility I might be wrong, of course, so I
like to
> > > keep up with what's going on in that area also.
> > >
> > > Donna
> > >
> > > BPR wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: skip007@sprynet.com
> > > >
> > > > Hi Donna,
> > > > Sorry about not making mention of the two candlesticks also, I
think that
> > > > the candlesticks also point towards the two witnesses being
Hebrews, as the
> > > > candlesticks would be placed INSIDE the temple.
> > > >
> > > > Also, about the mark of the beast, I agree with Shelley that it
will be
> > > > something that will be chosen by each individual and not something
that can
> > > > be forced on people. If it could be forced on people then who
would be
> > > > martyred?!
> > > >
> > > > CL
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > > > From: BPR <bpr-list@philologos.org>
> > > > > To: BPR Mailing List <bpr-list@philologos.org>
> > > > > Subject: Re: The Mark of the Beast
> > > > > Date: Friday, September 25, 1998 4:30 PM
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "Donna J. Berkley" <donnaberkley@sprintmail.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > CL ... what about the two candlesticks ? Candlesticks seem to
be
> > > > > churches if we take our cue from the first few chapters of
> > > > > Revelation ... perhaps the 2 churches Christ didn't have any
> > > > > negatives to say about ?
> > > > >
> > > > > It says the olive trees AND the candlesticks ... I can never get
> > > > > anybody to tell me about the candlesticks ... any thoughts ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Donna
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > BPR wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: skip007@sprynet.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just my two cents about the two witnesses...
> > > > > > Rev 11:4 "These are the two olive trees and the two
candlesticks
> > > > standing
> > > > > > before the God of the earth."
> > > > > > I believe that the reference to "olive trees" would point to
these men
> > > > > > being Hebrews.
> > > > > > Also, in Matthew 17 we see Moses and Elijah standing with the
Lord.
> > > > > > During Moses ministry the plagues on Egypt occured and through
the
> > > > ministry
> > > > > > of Elijah the rain was stopped. These are precisely the same
things we
> > > > see
> > > > > > happen at the hands of the two witnesses.
> > > > > > Personally I believe the two witnesses are Moses and Elijah.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > God bless,
> > > > > > CL
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------:)
> > > > >
> > > > > "A weapon is best applied in the manner for which
> > > > > it was designed. So it is with the Sword of the
> > > > > Spirit, the Word of God, designed to be applied in
> > > > > love not brute force." (BTH 1998)
> >
> > --- BPR
> >
> > BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: News: Swedes flock to church exhibiton of Jesus in drag
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 09:39:39 +0000
From: "Moza" <moza@butterfly.mv.com>
Swedes flock to church exhibition of Jesus in drag
UPPSALA, Sweden, Sept 20 (AFP) - Almost 12,000 Swedes squeezed into
Uppsala cathedral late Saturday to see a controversial exhibition of
slides portraying a homosexual Jesus dressed as a woman and wearing
high heels.
Police had to marshal the crowd and form a cordon around the Lutheran
cathedral, 70 kilometres (40 miles) north of Stockholm, following a
bomb threat, while also turning back groups of protestors.
Tuulikki Koivunen Bylund, the pastor who organised the "Ecce homo"
exhibition, told the TT agency Sunday: "I have been heavily
criticised, but I think it's up to the faithful to decide for
themselves."
"I know some people have denounced me over this, accusing me of making
out that Jesus was a woman," he said, adding that it was a gesture to
homosexual Christians in the church-going community.
One of the most controversial pictures by photographer Elisabeth
Ohlson shows Jesus in high heels at the Last Supper, surrounded by
transvestite apostles. The exhibition had previously been shown in a
church in Stockholm.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: News: Weekend News Today Items
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 18:45:40 +0000
From: "Moza" <moza@butterfly.mv.com>
34% of Russians want establishment of a dictatorship
Weekend News Today Source: Yahoo!
Wed Sep 23 , 1998 -- 33% Russians believe the president should have
``supreme power,'' while 34 % said the establishment of a dictatorship
was the only solution to the economic crisis, AP cited a poll released
Wednesday. Those polled named former Gen. Alexander Lebed as the most
likely person to establish a dictatorship, according to the Interfax
news agency, which reported on the poll. 45% disagreed that a
dictatorship was the only solution; 21 percent were undecided. The
nationwide poll was conducted last weekend by the National Public
Opinion Center, which said it had a margin of error of plus or minus 3
percentage points.
Jewish Priestly Line Maintains Legacy - and Genetic Marker
Weekend News Today Source: IsraelWire
Wed Sep 23 , 1998 -- Sholom Cohen's family tree has extraordinarily
deep roots and long branches. It stretches from Pittsburgh, through
Eastern Europe and far back into the Middle East. In fact, he traces
his kin 3,300 years into the pages of the Torah, or Old Testament.
Cohen, along with hundreds of other Jews living in Western
Pennsylvania (USA) and about 350,000 Jews around the world, are
kohanim, a Hebrew word literally meaning "priests." Monday and
Tuesday, as part of Rosh Hashanah, the celebration of the Jewish* new
year of 5759, Cohen and other kohanim around the world discharged one
of the few required duties surviving for them over the millennia:
blessing their congregations with the special prayer known as birkat
kohanim, or priestly benediction. It's an inheritance in Judaism that
has been passed from fathers to sons for generations. For many, like
Cohen and others named Kohn, Kahn or Coen, their surnames often
indicate their priestly status. But this summer, researchers reported
that there was a genetic underpinning to that legacy. Based on a study
of 306 Jewish men in Israel, Canada and England, the researchers
discovered that the 106 Jews who had identified themselves as kohanim
shared genetic markers in their Y chromosomes that members of the
general Jewish population did not. As the study's originator, Dr. Karl
Skorecki, head of molecular medicine at the Technion Institute of
Technology in Haifa, Israel, and a kohen himself, has said, "The
simplest, most structured explanation is that these men have the Y
chromosome of Aaron." Additionally, the researchers dated the
inception of the Aaronide line to be more than 3,200 years old, a
period that would date roughly back to the time of the Hebrews' exodus
from Egypt as written in the Torah. Study researcher David B.
Goldstein has said the findings show that the "oral tradition is
actually right (and) that it has been followed over some period of
time." The Y chromosome, so named for its shape, is carried only by
males (females carry two X's), making it easy to track. Researchers
studied two of the chromosome's genetic markers, or sections, of DNA,
the double-stranded molecule that carries our encoded genetic
material. While most chromosomes rearrange themselves randomly through
succeeding generations, increasing genetic diversity, these were more
homogenous. The study also found a predominance of certain chromosome
features in kohanim of both Ashkenazi and Sephardi origin. Ashkenazim
are Eastern European Jews and Sephardim originated in Spain and
Portugal. Researchers said this was further evidence that the shared
priestly genes predated the split of world Jewry into these two
distinct ethnic groups more than 1,000 years ago.
China's population growth under control???
Weekend News Today Source: Nando Times
Thu Sep 24 , 1998 -- China's efforts to control population growth have
proven successful with a population that is 200 million less than what
it could have been had nothing been done, Xinhua news agency quoted a
State Statistical Bureau report as saying. Officials had earlier said
two decades of the country's one-child policy had resulted in 300
million fewer people. The birth rate was 16.57 per 1,000 in 1997, 1.67
percent lower than in 1992, and well down from the 30 per thousand
level it had sustained for the first 35 years of communist rule, it
said. The total population, including the people of Hong Kong, stood
at 1.243 billion at the end of 1997, according to official figures.
(AFP)
Law of the Sea???
Weekend News Today Source: UN Dailyhighlights
Thu Sep 24 , 1998 -- Addressing the General Assembly on Thursday, the
President of Micronesia called on all States to ratify the United
Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. President Jacob Nena, who
reminded the Assembly that 1998 was the International Year of the
Ocean, said that the world could not afford to miss the opportunities
presented by this occasion to focus on the planet's "most prevalent,
yet least understood physical mechanism." The single best example of
that "dangerously incomplete understanding', he said, was the
ocean-generated worldwide disaster of El Nino which occurred this
year. President Nena said that for obvious reasons, his country, whose
predominant resource is the ocean supported the Tribunal for the Law
of the Sea, as well as resolutions aimed at eradicating the practice
of drift-net fishing and unauthorized fishing in areas of national
jurisdiction. "We urge action to reduce by-catches, fish discards and
post-harvest losses," the President of Micronesia said.
Weekend News Today
http://upway.com/cgi-bin/went
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: From Ed to List: Re: The First and Last Day of the70th Week?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 17:33:42 -0500
From: <owner-bpr@philologos.org>
Hi Ed...
Sorry it has taken me a couple of days to get to this. I needed
time to sit down and study along with ya. <g>
> I'd be glad to discuss this, but remember that I am seeking
> answers myself and there is an unsureness in all of this. It has
We'll consider this a field trip then. <g>
> beginning and ending date of that week. I shoujld also give this
> reminder, that to us, the first four feasts have been fulfilled
> regarding Christ, but to the Jews they are not yet fulfilled and
> the antichrist will possibly work according to Jewish tradition.
> That is why I consider the 70th week starting on Passover.
I was just getting ready to say that whether the Jews recognize
that a particular feast was fulfilled by Christ shouldn't negate it, but
you've made an excellent point about the anti-Christ. He imitates,
or rather tries to imitate everything Christ does. So yes, he may
possibly follow the "appointed times" as you suggest.
> Though I am a little hesitant to share SOME things I am considering because
> this is only investigative, I will.
Not to worry. The list is not a contest to see who can come up
with the most right answers, the quickest. <g> The list *is* about
exploration .. and "sharpening" as someone else put it. So please
feel free to share your thoughts.
> Remember, this is only speculative thinking over the Scriptures. But, since
> these feasts are fulfilled in Christ, when does the Church enter into the
> finished reality of them? I believe during the last three feasts. In other
> words, Christ fuflills these last three feasts for our benefit and the
> benefit of the remnant that comes out of Judaism. And just as He fulfilled
> the first four as God's time schedule, why would we possibly think He would
> not fulfill the last three as God's time schedule? That is why I am looking
> into this. Hope that wasn't confusing for you. It was a very quick summary
> of my thinking - maybe too quick.
No no.. I'm following ya. And so far, I believe we think alike on
this. As I mentioned earlier the first four feasts were fulfilled by
Christ as you also pointed out. I believe we can have every
expectation that He will fulfill the last three as well. However,
when I said or thought about that in the past, I never used the
phrase "fulfill in us" meaning the Church. But thinking about it
does make sense.
> Christ in the last three fall feasts. For instance, where does it say He
> will eat Passover with us in kingdom of God? I believe He is referring here
> to the wedding feast of the Lamb, in other words at the time of
> Tabernacles, which is synonymos with the Millennium (Zechariah 14). In the
> Passover meal, there is a fourth cup, and it is a cup of wrath, yet I have
> some studies that show He did not drink of that fourth Passover cup. The
I would like to see those studies Ed. Sounds interesting...
> Passover being in part a remembrance of Egypt, He fulfilled the
> part of the Passover meal where the Lamb was slain and the blood
> covered those who took refuge in God's house (Him). But, the
> sword also fell in Egypt. Where do we find that in the Passover
> meal? The fourth cup which has not yet been drunk and would LEAD
Another good point! I've never actually studied the fulfillment of
the feasts in as much detail as you have, but I'm following along
with you and it jives in my mind. (Not that my mind means
anything...but it does make sense.)
> not yet come, but it will at His coming. This aspect of the
> Egyptian Passover will be fulfilled at His coming. He will judge
> the world in righteousness and we will be led into the kingdom of
> God, or the Millennium, or the Feast of Tabernacles, whatever you
> want to call it.
Ok, now here I'll have to ask for some clarification. You've
mentioned before that you come from a post-trib viewpoint. When
you say the "Egyptian Passover will be fulfilled at His coming," are
you talking about *after* the seven year period? I don't think I've
asked that question right. Let's try again.... you mentioned the
possiblilty that the seven year period starts at a Passover Feast
and gets fulfilled at His coming. Is this coming at the beginning or
end of the seven year period? I hope you understand what I'm
trying to ask, cause I'm not sure I do. <g>
> Thanks, and I would love to discuss all of this. If you'd like, I can post
> soem of the research I have on the fourth cup.
Yes, please do.
Thanks Ed!
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: Mark of the Beast
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 17:43:02 -0500
From: owner-bpr@philologos.org
Donna wrote:
> Oh well, I just think these were meant as lessons to us and have
> direct bearing on the mark in the forehead and the mark in the
> right hand. Like I said before ... I think the physical commotion
> about the "mark" is razzle-dazzle to cause people to focus on the
> physical and not the spiritual ... to make us focus on the physical
> "war" and not the spiritual ... but I always keep remembering that
> the "gospel armour" that we are told to put on is spiritual.
Just to add some further references to the discussion and perhaps my own
comments at the end.
From the IVP Bible Background Commentary (which views most of
Revelation as symbolic) in comment to Rev 13:16-17:
"A Greco-Egyptian king had similarly required Jews to be branded
with the ivy leaf, the emblem of Dionysus (Maccabees 2:28-29); this
is likewise a mark of ownership, a brand or tattoo indicating to
which god or empire one belongs. The term for mark is, among other
things, the regular term for the imperial stamp on documents and of
the image of his head on coins."
However, the commentary goes on to say:
"Like the other markings in Revelation, it seems to be symbolic;
some Jewish texts speak of a symbolic mark of destruction on the
forehead of the wicked (Psalms of Solomon 15:9) in contrast to the
mark of the righteous (Rev 15:6). Some interpreters have
nevertheless seen a tangible expression of allegiance to the world
system; in at least the last two major imperial persecutions of
Christians, both in the third century, certificates were issued to
those who had fulfilled the mandated rite of emperor worship. But
the text may simply imply a figurative slave brand identifying to
whom a person belongs - God or the world. Participation in idolatry
appeared to be almost an economic necessity in many cities in Asia
Minor, and John warns that commercial discrimination would grow more
severe, alongside the graver danger of martyrdom."
From the Vincent's Word Studies, Vol 2: The Writings of John in
studying the word "mark":
"Commentators find illustrations in the brand set upon slaves by
their masters, or upon soldiers by their monarchs, and in the
branding of slaves attached to certain temples. Herodotus describes
a temple to Hercules at the Canopic mouth of the Nile, and says: 'If
a slave runs away from his master, and taking sanctuary at this
shrine gives himself up to the God, and receives certain sacred
marks upon his person, whosoever his master may be, he cannot lay
hand on him' (ii., 113). In the treatise 'concerning the Syrian
goddess' falsely attributed to Lucian, it is said of the slaves of
the temple, 'all are branded, some upon the wrist and some upon the
neck.'
"Paul, in Galatians 6:17, applies the word for these brands, to the
marks of Christ´s service which he bears in his body. In 3 Macc.
2:29, we read that Ptolemy Philopator required all the Jews of
Alexandria to be registered among the common people; and that those
who were thus registered were to be marked on their persons by the
ivy-leaf symbol of Dionysus (Bacchus). In Leviticus 19:28, the
Israelites are forbidden to make cuttings in their flesh for the
dead and to print marks upon themselves."
--------
What I find interesting about these comments is that we notice that
marking of the body was common in idolatry or pagan worship, i.e. a
physical mark was made. Christ would never ask us to physically
"mark our bodies" for Him would He? But the anti-Christ would.
Else how could he judge one's alliance to him? Christ knows our
hearts, therefore He doesn't need a physical mark. Our choice is
made with our hearts. The anti-Christ of course could not rely on a
"heart" choice. Would the anti-Christ accept "mere words" as a show
of alliance to him?
Secondly, the motivation for receiving the mark is that you can't buy
or sell without it. IMO, if the mark is symbolic or spiritual, then
buying and selling should be understood to be symbolic and spiritual
as well. Again, this shows the true nature of the anti-Christ. He
doesn't care whether you love him or give him your alliance to him
honestly. He just wants you, which is why he needs to *see* proof
that you belong to him. Christ on the other hand, wants your heart
and soul, but only if you truly love and accept Him as Saviour.
Remember that Christ is not the one issuing the mark, as all of His
"marks" referenced in the bible are, IMO, meant to be symbolic or
spiritual. But the mark that the anti-Christ will issue, I believe
will be a physical mark. And as we've seen, this is nothing new as
pagans in the past have certainly done it. However, because of the
implications of this mark, it therefore has a dual meaning. By taking
the physical mark, one is making a spiritual statement.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: List Stuff
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:00:08 -0500
From: owner-bpr@philologos.org
Hi guys...
Just a reminder to try and limit our quoting of previous comments in
our messages.
Try and quote just the sentence or two that you are referring to.
Those folks that
receive the mail in digest format are having to wade through a bunch
of old material
each time just to find what new is being said.
'preciate your help...
Thank you
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: BPR From Ed to List: Re: The First and Last Day ofthe70th Week?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 23:30:52 -0400
From: Ed <ejt@ncinter.net>
Hi,
I had said,
> not yet come, but it will at His coming. This aspect of the
> Egyptian Passover will be fulfilled at His coming. He will judge
> the world in righteousness and we will be led into the kingdom of
> God, or the Millennium, or the Feast of Tabernacles, whatever you
> want to call it.
And you asked,
>>>Ok, now here I'll have to ask for some clarification. You've
mentioned before that you come from a post-trib viewpoint. When
you say the "Egyptian Passover will be fulfilled at His coming," are
you talking about *after* the seven year period? I don't think I've
asked that question right. Let's try again.... you mentioned the
possiblilty that the seven year period starts at a Passover Feast
and gets fulfilled at His coming. Is this coming at the beginning or
end of the seven year period? I hope you understand what I'm
trying to ask, cause I'm not sure I do. <g><<<
Let me sorta back up and answer this. I see I could have worded it
much better. He will fulfill this at His coming immediately after
the tribulation at the end of the seven years. In other words, two
events happened on Passover night in Egypt:
1. The Passover Lamb was sacrificed and people took refuge in the
houses under the blood spread on the doorposts.
2. At midnight, the angel of the death came upon the firstborn of
those who had not taken that refuge for their safety.
Now, when Jesus celebrated His Passover the night before He died,
He drank the cup of remembrance of Israel deliverance from Egypt,
but then established a New Covenant in whcih He became the one
through His shed blood that men must now take refuge in order to
escape the wrath of God which will come at His second return. In
the meantime, the blood is there for all who choose to take refuge
in God's "house" under that blood because God's wrath is still to
come at the end of the age. In Egypt 4000 years ago, wrath came at
midnight, just as it will come upon all who have not taken refuge
in God's provision. I, and many I knew when I was a pretribulationist,
used to say how horrible the trib will be and God would not let us
go through it, until I realized there is something much more terrifying
coming: the very endtime wrath of God against all who have rejected His
Son.
I hope this helps.
Ed
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: 9/28/98 TV Programs
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:53:41 +0000
From: "Moza" <moza@butterfly.mv.com>
8:00 PM Eastern
DISC - WILD DISCOVERY - "Venomous Snakes" - Unique
characteristics of venomous snakes.(CC)(TVG)
9:00
CNN - LARRY KING LIVE - Ralph Reed.(CC)
DISC - CRIME SAFE - Researchers discuss biometrics and other
forms of high-tech identification and security.(CC)
10:00
DISC - TOP SECRET - "National Security Agency" - Film crews
get a glimpse of the high-tech inner workings of the National
Security Agency at Fort Meade, Md.(CC)(TVG)
HIST - MODERN MARVELS - "Antibiotics: The Wonder
Drugs" - Scientists fear that evolving strains of bacteria
will end the miracle of antibiotics.(CC)(TVG)
TLC - FIRE: THE NATURE OF THE BEAST - Research, images and
eyewitnesses profile the patterns of combustion and
conflagration.(CC)(TVG)
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: News: Germany & ECB sign agreement
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:32:13 +0000
From: "Moza" <moza@butterfly.mv.com>
GERMANY AND EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK SIGN
'HEADQUARTERS AGREEMENT'
With three months left before the arrival of the euro, Germany and the
Frankfurt-based European Central Bank have settled on the fine points
of their dealings with one another as host and guest. On Friday
(September 18), Foreign Minister Klaus Kinkel and ECB President Wim
Duisenberg signed a treaty setting out the legal and administrative
relations between the bank, a supra-national fiscal agency, and
Germany, its "headquarters state" ("Sitzstaat"). Once ratified by the
German parliament, the treaty will give Duisenberg and the other five
members of the ECB's board of directors diplomatic status. The bank
itself will be treated much as if it were the embassy of a foreign
government.
Friday's signing ceremony provided Duisenberg and Kinkel with an
opportunity to address a handful of oft-voiced concerns about the
currency union and the ECB. The bank, Duisenberg told reporters in
Frankfurt, will be entirely independent in setting monetary policy and
its decision-making procedures will be as transparent as possible.
Pointing to the euro's importance for Europe's future in an era of
economic globalization, Kinkel voiced his confidence that the euro
will be as hard a currency as the rock-solid DM. "The name Frankfurt
stands for a culture of stability - here, for fifty years, the
Bundesbank set a policy of stability for Germany that is a model for
Europe," Kinkel said. "The fathers and mothers of the Maastricht
Treaty have passed this experience on to the European Central Bank: it
will be at least as independent and as exclusively obliged to currency
stability as the Bundesbank."
German News (English Language)
GIC-E@LISTSERV.DARTMOUTH.EDU
9/25/98
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: News: Germany & ECB sign agreement
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:24:50 -0500
From: Alan <rookie@wf.net>
> GERMANY AND EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK SIGN
> 'HEADQUARTERS AGREEMENT'
what I think is completely amazing about this election in Germany is that
the socialists won it just as it was Germanies turn to be the president in
a retating Presidency.
The full story is here. :)
if you read it read watch for references to color as an identifier for the
different groups
Alan
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Mystery babylon
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:36:44 -0500
From: Alan <rookie@wf.net>
Well since a couple of weeks ago Bands brought up that Mystery baylon was
America. I thought, I might as well toss my 0.02 in. :)
rev
17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials,
and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the
judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: <<verse 15
tells what many waters is>>
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the
inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her
fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a
woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy,
having seven heads and ten horns.<<verse 9 tells us what the 7 heads are>>
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with
gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full
of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell
thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which
hath the seven heads and ten horns.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven
mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore
sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth
over the kings of the earth.
the great "city that sits on 7 hills"..... just do a search on this
phrase, it's self explainatory
be Blessed,
Alan
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: Mystery babylon
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:43:39 -0800
From: Wight <wight@alaska.net>
Actually, the literal translation is "mountain", not "hill". We, in making
a connection with Rome, refer to it as 7 hills when it is actually 7
mountains. I believe the 7 hills is really the only main argument for
supporting the Rome as Babylon. Descriptions of Babylon in Revelation make
it sound just like what America is today. America is full of abominations
and fornications, and when you think about it, the millions of aborted
babies who's lives have been taken in this country are God's saints.
Furthermore, America is quite a melting pot of all different nations and
races. That is what we have always been. America really fits the
description of Babylon. Verse 11 of chapter 18 talks about merchants
weeping at the destruction of Babylon because no one buys their goods
anymore. America is the wealthiest country in the world. We are probably
the most materialistic as well. This entire passage in chapter 18 so well
describes what would happen if America were destroyed.
My 2 cents,
Shelley
>From: Alan <rookie@wf.net>
>
>the great "city that sits on 7 hills"..... just do a search on this
>phrase, it's self explainatory
>
>be Blessed,
>
>Alan
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: Mystery babylon
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:50:21 -0500
From: "Donna J. Berkley" <donnaberkley@sprintmail.com>
The world of today is full of abominations and fornications of which America is
merely a part. It is not the only country that has such a high volume of
abortions or materialism. And other countries don't buy our goods so much as
we buy theirs.
I believe that the harlot, mystery babylon, is false religion, myself.
God/Christ is supposed to be our "husband" and so a harlot would be those
supposed to belong to God/Christ but turn away from their "husband" or
"promised bridegroom" to another. The old testament is full of this
husband/wife/harlot symbolism.
Mountains are often symbolic of peoples and nations ... I believe that God
talks about his people, his family as his "holy mountain".
Further I think the "buying and selling" that is mentioned in Revelation has
more to do with the buying and selling in the Temple as when Christ drove the
merchants out of his Father's temple in the gospels. When he comes at the
end ... he will be doing that again.
The old testament is full of references to the latter days that deal with how
the shepherds and pastors are no longer providing for their sheep and how the
true Word of God has been stripped out of the land causing famine ... and how
it will cost a day's wage to buy a measure of meal ... symbolic of how
difficult it will be to obtain any truth at all.
Many of our churches don't teach truth anymore ... they teach object lessons
and prosperity religion and traditions of men. You're really lucky if you
have churches in your area that focus on actually teaching the bible. They
are getting fewer and farther between as more and more of them become social
clubs and mere gathering places into which you pour your money to buy
"blessings" and "salvation".
When I realized the extent of the symbolism in the OT relating to these things
I have described to you, I was quite astonished.
2 more cents.
Donna
BPR wrote:
> From: Wight <wight@alaska.net>
>
> Actually, the literal translation is "mountain", not "hill". We, in making
> a connection with Rome, refer to it as 7 hills when it is actually 7
> mountains. I believe the 7 hills is really the only main argument for
> supporting the Rome as Babylon. Descriptions of Babylon in Revelation make
> it sound just like what America is today. America is full of abominations
> and fornications, and when you think about it, the millions of aborted
> babies who's lives have been taken in this country are God's saints.
> Furthermore, America is quite a melting pot of all different nations and
> races. That is what we have always been. America really fits the
> description of Babylon. Verse 11 of chapter 18 talks about merchants
> weeping at the destruction of Babylon because no one buys their goods
> anymore. America is the wealthiest country in the world. We are probably
> the most materialistic as well. This entire passage in chapter 18 so well
> describes what would happen if America were destroyed.
> My 2 cents,
> Shelley
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: Mystery babylon
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:21:43 +0000
From: "Moza" <moza@butterfly.mv.com>
Hello Shelley,
> I believe the 7 hills is really the only main argument for
> supporting the Rome as Babylon.
I'd like to present the following written by someone on another email
list to refute that claim:
-----begin-----
I believe that Rome is the city in these verses - let's look at them.
Rev. 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven
vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show
unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many
waters:
- 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city,
According to verse 18 above the woman is a CITY.
- 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven
mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
The CITY is situated on 7 mountains or HILLS. See Strongs:
G142; comp. G3733); a mountain (as lifting itself above the
plain):--hill, mount (-ain).
Rome which contains Vatican City is situated on 7 HILLS.
- 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE
GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
ROME was known as BABYLON. See 1 Peter 5:18; Roman Catholic
Apologist Karl Keating's book 'Cathoolicism and Fundamentalism' page
200 says "Babylon is a code word for Rome."
MYSTERY - Mystery is at the heart of RC. This is a quote from
'Catechism of the Catholic Church' page 235 paragraph 1075 under the
chapter heading 'The Celebration of the Christian Mystery' -
"Liturgical catechesis aims to initiate people into the mystery of
Christ (it is "mystagogy".) by proceeding from the visible to the
invisible, from the sign to the thing signified, from the "sacraments"
to the "mysteries". Such catechesis is to be presented by local and
regional catechisms. This Catechism...will present what is fundamental
and common to the whole Church in the liturgy as mystery and as
celebration..."
HARLOT - Spiritual fornication
- 18b "...which reigneth over the kings of the earth."
Popes have ruled over kings of the earth and have even had
their own armies.
Babel was the first city that united church and state the last
will be Rome.
- 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour,and
decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup
in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
PURPLE and SCARLET were the colors of Roman Cesars and became
those of RC leaders: Bishop - purple, Cardinals - Scarlet
GOLD, PRECIOUS STONES PEARLS - the VATICAN is clothed in this
wealth as is the woman
GOLDEN CUP - RCC has thousands of golden chalises
full of ABOMINATION - (Eucharist is supposed to have the
literal bloodof Jesus in the cups)
- 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and
with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered
with great admiration.
Many saints have been put to death by burning and torture for
disobeying the various Popes and RC practices.
Note the central figure is that of a woman. Mary is the main focus
for many in the RCC. Not the true humble girl that as a virgin gave
birth to Jesus, and went on to have other children as the Bible
records, but the false Mary who has thousands of shrines and statues
built of her all around the world. Who is supposedly the perpetual
virgin, Queen of Heaven, Mother of God etc. and who is prayed to
every day by millions of Catholics.
I think that this apostate church with the Vatican in Rome as it's
headquarters more apptly represents the woman portrayed in these
verses.
Dawn
-----end-----
For a more thorough study see the book entitled "A Woman Rides the
Beast" by Dave Hunt.
Just something to think about,
Moza
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: Mystery babylon
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:24:27 -0500
From: Alan <rookie@wf.net>
hi yall,
yup it is a mountain. Is Rome on mountains or hills? I've never been there
personally. But also a city is a city, not a country. America has some
problems. I could list a few dozen, but it would just be rehashing what you
have seen in the news lately. We have many of the traits of mystery babylon.
Actaully it isn't the only argument for Rome being mystery Babylon.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour,
These are the colors of the Cardinals and Bishops.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood
of the martyrs of Jesus:
Many times has the Catholic Church persecuted Christians as heretics, because
they didn't follow the Catholic teaching. Or even scientific beliefs,
Galaleo......
And perhaps one of the greatest verses in the Bible:
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my
people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her
plagues.
The Lord calling His People out of her, so they do not take part of the
judgement to levied.
Donna, I liked what you said about the False religions. Very timely and
accurate.
L8Rs
Alan
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: 9/29/98 TV Programs
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:11:24 +0000
From: "Moza" <moza@butterfly.mv.com>
8:00 PM Eastern
A&E - BIOGRAPHY - "Bill Gates: Sultan of Software" -
Microsoft chairman Bill Gates.(CC)(TVG)
HIST - SACRED CEREMONIES - Ancient rituals include body
piercing in Singapore and fertility rites in
Nigeria.(CC)(TVG)
9:00
PBS - FRONTLINE - "Ambush in Mogadishu" - In 1993 an
unsuccessful raid on Mogadishu leaves 18 U.S. soldiers dead
and Somalian civil war raging.(CC)
10:00
TLC - RETURN OF THE PLAGUES - Scientists fight deadly
global epidemics.(CC)(TVG)
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: News: A.D. Politically Incorrect?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:33:49 -0500
From: <owner-bpr@philologos.org>
From: Morrock News Service
http://morrock.com
`1998 A.D.' POLITICALLY INCORRECT: The American Jewish
Congress has asked Maine's top court to stop using the
abbreviation A.D. after year-dates in court papers. The initials
stand for ``anno domini'' and refer to the structure of the
calendar, which began its count at the approximate time of the
birth of Jesus. Using ``A.D.'' in dates is insensitive to non-
Christians, the AJC said. . . . Some students in schools have
already been instructed to use``C.E.,'' for ``common era,'' when
referring to dates back to the year 1, and ``B.C.E,'' ``before
common era,'' for earlier years. So far, though, no serious
proposals to revamp the calendar to link it to some other
historic event.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: News: A.D. Politically Incorrect?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:01:38 -0500
From: Alan <rookie@wf.net>
American Jewish Congress, hmmmmm that sounds familair for some liberal
reason. Anyone know about any of their policies?
Oh I just hit their web site, And was reminded of that House Resolution
that was passed with something like 40 noes. It was a Bill to Protect
From Religious Persecution. Has anyonme read that yet. Any comments?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c105:./temp/~c105gCp7jY
I've read it and as far as I can tell our own government couldn't even
pass the tests they have set up to determine if a group is being
persecuted or not.
Alan
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Timing of Four Horsemen
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:21:43 +0000
From: "Moza" <moza@butterfly.mv.com>
In my reading this morning I came across the following that might
help in dating the times of some of the things in the book of
Revelation:
Rev 6:2
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a
bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering,
and to conquer.
The month of Kislev's [Oct/Nov] sign is Keshet/Sagittarius.
"Kislev's sign is The Bow (Keshet in Hebrew)."
(Ohr Somayach "Seasons of the Moon" email list)
--------------------
"The Hebrew and Syriac name of the sign is Kesith, which means the
Archer (as in Genesis 21:20). The Arabic name is Al Kaus, the arrow.
In Coptic it is Pimacre, the graciousness, or beauty of the coming
forth. In Greek it is Toxotes, the archer, and in Latin Sagittarius.
"There are 69 stars in the sign, viz., five of the 3rd magnitude (all
in the bow), nine of the 4th, etc.
"The names of the brightest stars are significant:
"Hebrew, Naim, which means the gracious one...Hebrew, Nehushta, the
going or sending forth...We see the same in the Arabic names which
have come down to us: Al Naim, the gracious one; Al Shaula, the dart;
Al Warida, who comes forth; Ruchba or rami, the riding of the
bowman."
(The Witness of the Stars, E. W. Bullinger).
The 3 constellations associated with this sign include:
1. LYRA (The Harp) Praise prepared for the conqueror
2. ARA (The Altar) Consuming fire prepared for his enemies
3. DRACO (The Dragon) The old serpent, or the Devil, cast down from
Heaven
--------------------
Rev 6:5-6
And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say,
Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on
him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the
midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and
three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil
and the wine.
"The sign of the month of Tishrei [Sept/Oct], Libra, is called in
Hebrew Moznaim, which literally means 'balances.' It's not difficult
to see the connection between the symbol of the balances and the
month of Tishrei, for the first day of Tishrei is Rosh Hashana, a day
when the future of the world and all its inhabitants literally hangs
in the balance."
(Ohr Somayach, Seasons of the Moon email list)
--------------------
"The Hebrew name is Mozanaim, the Scales, weighing. Its name in Arabic
is Al Zubena, pruchase, or redemption. In Coptic, it is Lambadia,
station of propitiation (from Lam, graciousness, and badia, branch).
The name by which it has come down to us is the Latin, Libra, which
means weighing, as used in the Vulgate (Isa 40:12).
"Libra contains three bright stars whose names supply us with the whole
matter. The brightest (in the lower scale), is named Zuben al
Genubi, which means the purchase, or price which is deficient. This points
to the fact that man has been utterly ruined. He is 'weighed in the
balances and found wanting.'"
The second brightest "al Gubi, heaped up, or high." The third
brightest "is called Zuben Akrabi or Zuben al Akrab,
which means the price of the conflict."
(The Witness of the Stars, E. W. Bullinger)
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: News: Yasser Arafat at the UN
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:21:43 +0000
From: "Moza" <moza@butterfly.mv.com>
REMARKS BY YASSER ARAFAT, CHAIRMAN, PALESTINE LIBERATION
ORGANIZATION BEFORE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE UNITED NATIONS UNITED
NATIONS HEADQUARTERS NEW YORK, NEW YORK 4:39 P.M. EDT MONDAY,
SEPTEMBER 28, 1998
(NOTE: Chairman Arafat's remarks are through interpreter.)
CHAIRMAN ARAFAT: Mr. President, for the first time, Palestine
participates in the opening of the United Nations General Assembly
under the agenda item "General Debates." This participation is a
manifestation of the resolution adopted by your august assembly on
upgrading Palestine's representation at the United Nations, which we
consider to be an essential step towards full membership.
I would like at this time to express the deep gratitude of the
Palestinian people to all member states that supported this resolution
with an overwhelming majority. They have reflected, with this
important resolution, the will of the countries and peoples of the
world for the need to realize justice for the Palestinian people so as
to regain their international status and their seat at the United
Nations.
Mr. President, I extend to you our sincere congratulations on
your assumption of the presidency of the 53rd session of the General
Assembly, wishing you all success in your important and noble task
during these crucial times in our contemporary world, and in our
international organization.
I would also like to extend our gratitude and appreciation to
His Excellency Mr. Hennadiy Udovenko for guiding and presiding
effectively over the 52nd Session, praising in particular his
leadership during the June 10th emergency Special Session of the
General Assembly on illegal Israeli actions in occupied East Jerusalem
and the rest of the occupied Palestinian territory. It gives me great
pleasure to commend the secretary-general of the United Nations, His
Excellency, our friend, Mr. Kofi Annan, for his distinguished and wise
leadership, and I congratulate him on the many successes he has
achieved in several fields. We had the honor, Your Excellency, of
welcoming you a few months ago in our country, Palestine, where you
observed and witnessed first-hand the tragedy of the Palestinian
people and their grave suffering as a result of the continuing Israeli
occupation of our homeland, Palestine. It is my hope that we will have
the opportunity to welcome you in the future under better conditions,
the day when occupation has been terminated and Palestine has regained
its freedom.
Mr. President, as we approach the end of the 20th century, our
world is witnessing, and all of mankind is experiencing, great changes
and important events, beginning with the globalization and the
problems of the international financial market to the technological
revolution, satellite communications, and the age of information.
All of these rapid changes that have rocked our contemporary
world require the necessary enhancement of our collective work within
the framework of the United Nations, on the basis of the purposes and
principles of the charter and for the improvement of international
cooperation in various arenas and the acceleration of dialogue between
north and south in order to establish a better world where peace,
justice and prosperity for all mankind prevail.
Many of the difficult and complicated tasks in this regard have
been forced upon us, and we must deal with them effectively. We have
before us the task of economic and social development, particularly in
the countries of the Third World, solving the debt crisis as well as
the problems of poverty, famine, disease and migration in Asia, Africa
and Latin America. These changes require the attainment of
comprehensive equitable relations that are more rational and more
just.
Many of the problems of a global nature, such as terrorism,
drugs, epidemics and organized crime, require strengthening the rule
of international law, as well as the establishment of the necessary
organization and mechanisms within the framework of the United
Nations.
At this stage, we also welcome the adoption of the statute on
the establishment of the international criminal court, which is an
important step in the promotion of law and in putting an end to the
atrocities and crimes committed against humanity.
Mr. President, all of these challenges and responsibilities
should not prevent us from recalling that many of the basic tasks of
the international community in our contemporary world have not yet
been accomplished. There are people who still remain under foreign
occupation, including our Palestinian people, who have been and
continue to be exposed to one of the gravest injustices. This great
people did not commit a crime. They did not commit aggression against
anyone. They did not occupy the land of any other people. However,
they were the victims of aggression, their land was occupied, and they
were dispersed and forced by military force to a life in diaspora and
exile.
There are still 4 million Palestinian refugees living in camps
awaiting the realization of international justice and the
implementation of the resolutions of international legitimacy to do
them justice and to put an end to the tragedy of life in exile as
refugees for more than a half-century.
It is also necessary to exert more effort to resolve many of the
regional conflicts and problems, including, of course, the Middle
East, the Balkans, particularly Bosnia and Hercegovina, Afghanistan
and others.
It is necessary to exert a special effort and to devote
additional resources to solving the problems of the African continent,
in order to allow this great continent to move forward on the path of
development and progress. This should include seeking to restore
normal conditions in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and
achieving peace and stability in the Great Lakes region and the whole
of Africa.
It is also important to consider the issue of sanctions because
of their terrible and destructive effects on peoples and on
neighboring states. Here I refer specifically to Iraq, Libya, and the
Sudan. While calling for solutions to these problems and the lifting
of sanctions on the basis of the implementation of Security Council
resolutions, we cannot but express the feeling of many of us
concerning the use of double standards in implementing this principle.
In this regard, I would like to express our satisfaction with
the progress that has been achieved, in particular with regard to the
Libyan Arab Jamahiriyah.
Finally, I come to an extremely important question, which is the
question of nuclear disarmament and the weapons of mass destruction
and nonproliferation. While strongly supporting the goals of the
international community in this regard, we refer in particular to the
immense problem existing in our region of the possession by Israel of
such weapons and its refusal to accede to the Treaty of the
Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons and weapons of mass destruction,
and place its nuclear installations under the supervision of the
International Atomic Energy Agency.
The small size of our region and its nature increase the dangers
and horrors stemming from the continuation of the situation. What
occurred recently in South Asia must encourage us all towards sincere
cooperation and commitment to the application of one standard with
regards to this issue.
In order to accomplish all of the above, we need a United
Nations that is more effective. We support the efforts exerted by many
states and the efforts of the secretary-general in this regard. At the
same time, we feel and believe that our goal must go beyond reducing
expenditures, downsizing the secretariat, streamlining the General
Assembly, and expanding the Security Council -- all of which are
important issues. Our goal must go beyond that to achieve the complete
democratization of this global organization. With this in mind, it is
necessary to enhance the role of the General Assembly, and it is also
necessary to find solutions to the veto question in the Security
Council, particularly its frequent and excessive use. Transparency and
clear rules of procedure must prevail in the Council.
At this juncture, I would like to remind you that since 1973
that our question has been subjected to 21 vetoes in the Security
Council by -- 21 times -- by one of the permanent members of the
Council. And the most recent two vetoes occurred in a period of less
than two weeks. In short, it is necessary to secure for all members of
the United Nations the ability to contribute effectively and on the
basis of mutual respect.
Mr. President, last May the Palestinian people commemorated the
50th anniversary of "alechba" (sp), the disposition and the suffering
of the Palestinian people. Despite all of these bitter years, the
oldest and largest refugee question in our contemporary world remains
unresolved, and our land still suffers under occupation and colonial
settlement. Its natural resources are subjected to exploitation, and
the city of al-Kuds al-Sharif is still subjected to Judaization, land
confiscation, demolition of homes, confiscation of identity cards from
its inhabitants, the imposition of a certain demographic composition
and artificial administrative measures. In addition is the isolation
of the city of Bethlehem and the conflict occurring in El Khalil,
Hebron and the rest of the Palestinian cities. Eight million
Palestinians are still being deprived of their right to exercise
sovereignty over their land like the rest of the peoples of the world.
Despite all of this, despite the long and grave suffering and
pain, and after and a long and legendary steadfastness, our
Palestinian people have been able to survive and preserve their
national identity. Thus, our people chose the peace option and
accepted the will of the international community in this regard.
Accordingly, we decided with our Arab brothers to participate in
the peace process, which began in Madrid in 1991. Then we took the
well-known historical step leading to the Oslo agreement with Israel,
which was signed at the White House in Washington, D.C. on the 13th of
September 1993. This development carried the promise of a historic
reconciliation and coexistence between the two peoples, and the
prospect of a new Middle East and the beginning of the establishment
of a comprehensive and permanent peace in the region.
Indeed, all parties realized tangible achievements, and the
Palestinian people were able to start building their institutions and
to deal with the destructive consequences of the long years of
occupation they experienced, in particular, the general democratic
elections and the establishment of the Palestinian National Authority.
Despite all of the difficulties that confronted the process, the
general trend continued to be forward progress until the peace process
was dealt a severe blow by the assassination of the late Yitzhak Rabin
-- my partner in the peace process, my partner in the peace process,
the peace of the brave, the peace of the brave, the peace of the brave
-- by Israeli extremists.
This was followed by other blows resulting from the bombings and
the grave deterioration of the living conditions of our people and
deliberate acts to destroy the peace.
When the government of Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu took office in
Israel, a new chapter began with its adoption of general political
guidelines that were not consistent with the existing agreements. The
government publicly tried to undermine the principles of the peace
process, which are Security Council Resolutions 242, 338 and 425, and
the principle of land for peace. This government stopped the
implementation of the existing agreements, with the exception of the
redeployment in El Khalil, which was achieved only after intense
American efforts.
The Israeli government continued to prevaricate and refrained
from honoring the obligations of the transitional period, which are of
great importance to our people, including the safe passage between the
West Bank and the Gaza Strip, the airport, the seaport, the release of
Palestinian prisoners and detainees in Israeli prisons, and the
industrial zones, neither the first stage of redeployment, which was
supposed to begin on 7 March 1997, nor the second stage, which was
supposed to begin on 7 September 1997, which both, along with the
third redeployment, the date of which was also missed since the middle
of this year, should have led to the withdrawal of the Israeli army
from about 90 percent of our land.
Moreover, this government's policies of economic suffocation,
closure, and direct oppression against our people, which costs us
daily losses of about $10 million -- daily losses -- which constitutes
an economic catastrophe -- the government has continued with the
intensification of settlement, the Judaization of Jerusalem, and the
isolation of Bethlehem and the old city of El Khalil, and the
disapproval of the operation of the Palestinian airports, safe
passage, industrial zones, and the seaport, in order to escalate the
suffocation and the siege against our people, and to destroy the peace
process. All of these policies and positions adopted by the government
of Israel caused this dangerous situation and the complete stalemate
of peace process on the Palestinian track, as well as on the Syrian
and Lebanese tracks, which ceased totally, as well as the general
tension prevailing in the region and the danger of descending into
total chaos, for which the whole world has expressed grave concern and
has called upon the Israeli side to change its policies and positions
and to comply with the basis of the peace process and implement the
existing agreements.
It is high time for the international community, in adherence
with international law and in the interest of peace, to exert
effective and tangible pressures on the Israeli side, to realize those
aims which serve peace, security, and stability on the international
level and not only in the Middle East, by implementing the agreements
which were signed at the White House under the auspices of President
Clinton, by the Russian Federation, the U.S., the European Union,
Norway, Egypt, and Jordan, and in the presence of Japan, and to
implement international Resolutions 242, 338, and 425, which were the
basis of the Madrid peace conference and the principle of land for
peace, and the principle of land for peace.
Mr. President, with the hope of halting the deterioration of the
existing situation, the Palestinian side, in cooperation with many of
the parties concerned, has sought to intensify efforts, particularly
with the U.S. co-sponsor, and especially the efforts of President
Clinton, for which we express our gratitude. These efforts resulted in
the initiative which contained -- that is the U.S. initiative -- which
contained all of the important pending issues and which was submitted
to the parties concerned.
As you are aware, the Palestinian side accepted this American
initiative, despite the fact that it did not met our minimum
legitimate demands. In return, the Israeli side still rejects this
initiative and continues its attempts to undermine it and preempt its
contents.
President Clinton, thankfully, sent Madame Secretary of State
Albright and Mr. Dennis Ross, who have made great efforts to push the
peace process forward and protect it. Despite all of that, the Israeli
government has not responded to these efforts. Hence, we call upon the
U.S. co-sponsor to declare its initiative and to publicly and clearly
announce the responsibility of the party that is impeding peace.
We also call upon the U.S. to continue to move effectively in a
manner consistent with the responsibilities of the United States
towards the peace process and towards its interests and credibility in
the Middle East region, and to protect this region from the dangers
emanating from the destruction of the peace process.
This morning President Clinton graciously took an important step
to save the peace process by convening a meeting at the White House
between the Palestinian and the Israeli delegations. This was an
important meeting to promote the peace process and to protect it. We
thank President Clinton for that, particularly since the efforts of
the U.S. will continue to push the peace process forward and for the
implementation of the signed agreements.
In this context, we call upon the other parties concerned to
intensify their efforts, particularly the Russian Federation in its
capacity as one of the two co-sponsors of the peace process, as well
as China and Japan. We also call upon the European Union in
particular, with its economic and political interests and
capabilities, to move quickly and effectively to salvage and safeguard
the peace process.
In this same direction, we call upon all of you to support the
French-Egyptian initiative to convene an international conference of
all states determined to save the peace process from the dangerous
crisis it has reached.
We have not lost hope in the peace process. We have not lost
hope in the peace process, and we will continue to honor our
obligations in accordance with the existing agreements.
At the same time, we will not give up on the need for Israeli
compliance with those agreements and the implementation of the pending
obligations. And we will not give up our inalienable national rights,
the inalienable national rights of the Palestinian people.
At this stage, I cannot but extend, on behalf of the Palestinian
people, our deep gratitude to all the donor countries and to the World
Bank for their valuable contributions aimed at alleviating the
suffering of our people, at assisting them in building and developing
of their country, and at achieving effective economic and social
development. I reiterate our gratitude to them, particularly because
they are doing so despite the obstacles and impediments imposed by
Israel in this regard.
Mr. President, it is so difficult to separate the United Nations
from the question of Palestine, for this international organization
has been dealing with our cause since its inception. It was the United
Nations which partitioned Palestine, and it has never ceased until
this time to deal with the results of the events that followed, with
the repeated and increasing injustices perpetrated against our people,
for which no remedy has been found until now.
While reaffirming the permanent responsibility of the United
Nations for the question of Palestine, we appeal to all of you to
enhance your solidarity and support for our people in the coming
period and through these critical circumstances -- and through these
critical circumstances -- on the basis of the principles of the United
Nations Charter, international law, and international humanitarian
law.
We expect that the conference of the high contracting parties to
the Fourth Geneva Convention will be convened before the end of this
year on measures to enforce the convention in the occupied Palestinian
territory, including al-Quds al-Sharif, in accordance with the
recommendations made repeatedly by the 10th emergency special session
of the General Assembly. In the same context, we also expect the
Israeli participation in the work of the 53rd session of the General
Assembly to be in conformity with international law, thus ensuring
that Israeli credentials do not cover those territories determined by
the Security Council and the General Assembly as occupied Palestinian
and Arab territories since 1967, including occupied East Jerusalem.
This is something on which there is consensus by the international
community.
Mr. President, I would like to call upon all of you from this
place -- the source of international legitimacy and peacemaking, the
guardian of freedom, security and stability, and the source for the
achievement of justice and prosperity for humankind -- to stand by our
people, especially as the five-year transitional period provided for
in the Palestinian-Israeli agreements will end on the 4th of May, 1999
-- will end on the 4th of May, 1999 -- and our people demand of us to
shoulder our responsibilities, and they await the establishment of
their independent state.
This independent Palestinian state must be established as an
embodiment of the right of all people to self-determination. I assure
you that our people will continue to pursue and protect the peace of
the brave in the Middle East. We appeal to you to continue your
support for us as has always been in the case in the decisive moments
of the history, the present, and the future of our people. Help us to
achieve the national goal of our people in the establishment of their
state.
It is not admissible for Israel to continue dominating the
Palestinian people, and everyone is aware that 100 percent peace means
100 percent security, and 100 percent freedom; 100 percent freedom,
100 percent peace, 100 percent security, 100 percent freedom; 100
percent freedom.
If the Israeli government wants reciprocity, I declare from this
podium, my demand of them for mutual compliance of the signed
agreements, especially in the fields of security and the protection of
Palestinians and Israelis against all forms of violence and terrorism.
I invite the Israeli government to engage in common serious work
between us to address that. There is no alternative to peace. Help us
to achieve it, to achieve it.
By the year 2000, the past and the future will meet; the past
and the future will meet in Palestine, joined by a global vision;
joined by a global vision of hope and peace for all peoples of the
world.
The world will on that occasion celebrate the second millennium
of the birth of our Lord, Jesus Christ -- peace be upon him! -- and
the beginning of a new millennium. It is a religious and spiritual
occasion that bears great importance, not only for the Palestinian
people and the region, but also for all believers in the world, as
well as for the entire international community.
The Palestinian people have actually begun serious preparations
to celebrate this important religious and historical occasion with the
cooperation of many religious, political and social institutions
concerned. We call upon you to join us in bearing the responsibility
of these preparations. And we invite you to directly participate in
the forthcoming celebrations, to start together, God willing, a new
march. In this regard, we appreciate the addition by the General
Assembly of a new item to its agenda, entitled "Bethlehem 2000." We
also extend our thanks to the chairman and members of the Committee on
the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People for
their initiative in this regard.
I also take this opportunity to thank its sister committee, the
Special Committee to investigate Israeli practices affecting the human
rights of the Palestinian people.
Mr. President, I look forward to speaking to you once more when
Palestine has taken its natural place in the community of nations as
an independent state, and when peace has prevailed in the land of
peace and in the entire Middle East.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. (Applause.) END.
Israeli & Global News
http://www.cmep.com
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: News: Energy Burst Hits Earth
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 07:58:36 -0500
From: <owner-bpr@philologos.org>
Atmospheric Disturbance Indicates New Kind of Star
Energy Burst Hit Pacific Sky Last Month
By Kathy Sawyer
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 30, 1998; Page A01
The most powerful energy burst ever detected striking Earth
from beyond the solar system hit the night sky over the Pacific
last month, disrupting spacecraft, disturbing the upper
atmosphere and delivering compelling evidence of what some
scientists believe is a new kind of star.
Independent teams of observers using different instruments
recorded the five-minute burst on Aug. 27. They emphasized
that the intense pulse of gamma rays and X-rays -- the most
energetic radiation there is -- did not penetrate closer than 30
miles or so above the planet's surface and presented no health
risk to living things.
The flash appears to have emanated from a catastrophic
quake on the surface of a neutron star -- a dense ball with
about the same diameter as the Washington Beltway but more
mass than the sun -- located 20,000 light-years away in Earth's
home galaxy, the Milky Way, in the direction of the
constellation Aquila (the Eagle).
This is the first time that a significant change in Earth's
environment has been traced to energy from a specific distant
star, researchers said at a briefing on the event at NASA
headquarters yesterday. The blast sent detectors to maximum
or off-scale on at least seven research craft in Earth orbit and
as far out as Jupiter. On at least two spacecraft, the wave's
intensity triggered a defensive shutdown of instruments.
The source is believed to be a magnetar, a type of neutron star
with a magnetic field billions of times stronger than any on
Earth and 100 times stronger than any other previously known
in the universe. The blast provides the clearest evidence yet
that the theoretical magnetars exist.
"It was as if night was briefly turned into day in the
ionosphere," said Umran Inan of Stanford University in Palo
Alto, Calif., referring to the blast's sudden ionization (stripping of
electrons from gas atoms) of the upper atmosphere. "We now
know that Earth's physical environment is affected not only by
our own sun, but by energy originating from distant parts of our
universe."
If the energy required to produce the burst could be
harnessed, "it would be enough to power all of human
civilization on Earth for a billion billion years," said Kevin Hurley
of the University of California at Berkeley. A specialist in such
high-energy bursts who used satellite information to calculate
the energy, Hurley said, "I've been monitoring things like this
for 30 years, and I've never seen anything like it."
Robert Duncan of the University of Texas, who first predicted
the existence of magnetars in 1992, said the violent release of
pure magnetic energy was probably triggered by a sudden
cataclysmic adjustment in the magnetic field that was powerful
enough not only to crack the star's iron crust -- thought to be a
more common occurence -- but to pulverize it globally. "A
magnet this strong could erase the magnetic strip on the credit
cards in your wallet or pull the keys out of your pocket from a
distance halfway to the moon," he said.
For anyone unfortunate enough to come close to such an
object, he said, there would a choice of ways to die, including
a steady X-ray bombardment, a deadly wind of electrons and
anti-electrons, gravitational pancaking, and of course lethal
magnetic energy 10,000 times stronger than is required to be
fatal.
Some colleagues had laughed at Duncan and Christopher
Thompson of the University of North Carolina six years ago
when they first proposed the existence of magnetars as a
possible explanation for objects that repeatedly emit bursts of
gamma rays. These so-called Soft Gamma-ray Repeaters
(SGRs), had been identified in 1986 and are distinct from
nonrepeating gamma ray bursts recently found to emanate from
the far reaches of the known universe.
But evidence began mounting in favor of the magnetar theory
earlier this year. In June, a team led by Chryssa Kouveliotou of
NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., used
the orbiting Compton Gamma Ray Observatory to detect 50
flashes from the same neutron star, known as SGR1900+14.
The team enlisted NASA's Rossi X-ray Timing Explorer satellite
to help determine that faint X-rays coming from the star pulsed
regularly in intensity every 5.16 seconds -- a reflection of the
star's spin rate. Hurley's team, using a Japanese/NASA
satellite, had measured the pulses earlier. A comparison of the
two showed that the pulses were slowing down 1,000 times
faster than in a normal pulsing neutron star. The researchers
were then able to calculate the magnetic field, which
Kouveliotou said is acting as the star's "brake." It is 800 trillion
times stronger than Earth's.
Kouveliotou, who had earlier reported evidence of another
possible magnetar, said the latest discovery provides
"compelling" vindication of Duncan's 1992 prediction. "We
have discovered a new type of star."
Inan led a research group that observed the Aug. 27
atmospheric disturbance with a string of North American
stations called HAIL (the Holographic Array for Ionospheric
Lightning research) that use VLF radio transmissions to monitor
changes in the ionosphere, a region above the range of
weather balloons and below that of satellites.
A second team used the National Science Foundation's Very
Large Array (VLA) radio telescope in New Mexico to observe
the phenomenon. "Where there's smoke, there's fire, and
we've seen the 'smoke' that tells us there's a magnetar out
there," said the team's Dale Frail of the National Radio
Astronomy Observatory (NRAO) in Socorro, N.M.
A neutron star is the remnant of a massive star that explodes
and collapses to a density in which a thimbleful of its matter
would weigh 100 millions tons. The most familiar variety is a
pulsar, a whirling dervish that whips around up to several times
a second, emitting "lighthouse beams" of radio waves that
rotate with it. Its interior is a peculiar neutron Jello.
The magnetar rotates like a pulsar, but because of internal
processes, it also develops a magnetic field strong enough to
rip atoms apart.
The researchers observed that, while a refrigerator magnet has
a field of about 100 Gauss (the measure used by physicists), a
magnetar's field strength is about a million trillion Gauss.
Jim Cordes, of Cornell University, who specializes in the
astrophysics of neutron stars, said the discovery -- a home run
for theoretical astrophysics, is "astounding, even to
somebody like me."
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: News: Religion Today Current News Summary
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:48:42 -0500
From: owner-bpr@philologos.org
C U R R E N T N E W S S U M M A R Y
by the Editors at ReligionToday.com
September 29, 1998
The PBS program Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly has listed 25
religious figures who have most influenced Americans in the last
100 years. In alphabetical order, they are: Karl Barth, Swiss
pastor and theologian; Dietrich Bonhoeffer, German pastor and
theologian; Martin Buber, Jewish theologian; the Dalai Lama,
Tibetan Buddhist leader; Dorothy Day, pacifist and founder of the
Catholic Worker Movement; Mary Baker Eddy, founder of Christian
Science; Mohandas Gandhi, Indian spiritual leader; evangelist
Billy Graham; Gustavo Gutirrez, Peruvian Catholic who is the
father of liberation theology; Carl F.H. Henry, evangelical
theologian and first editor of Christianity Today magazine;
Abraham Joshua Heschel, rabbi and civil rights activist; Pope
John XXIII; Pope John Paul II; Martin Luther King Jr.; and
Ayatollah Khomeini, Iranian Shiite Muslim leader.
...Also, C.S. Lewis, Christian author and scholar; Thomas Merton,
Trappist monk; Elijah Muhammad, Nation of Islam leader; Reinhold
Niebuhr, Protestant theologian; Norman Vincent Peale, positive
thinking advocate; Walter Rauschenbusch, known as the father of
the social gospel; Albert Schweitzer, theologian and
humanitarian; Menachem Mendel Schneerson, Lubavitcher rabbi;
Mother Teresa; and Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor and author.
...Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly, a half-hour program that airs
nationwide, is produced by WNET in New York and funded by the
Lilly Endowment.
[.. edited ..]
American churchgoers don't feel they are communicating with God,
researcher George Barna says. About 75 million Americans attend
church every Sunday but many don't believe they have experienced
God's presence. Less than a third of those who go to church feel
they are interacting with God during service and an additional
third said they had never experienced God's presence.
..."Most of them leave the church disappointed, week after week,"
Barna said. His research showed that mixing different music
styles during worship and sermons that are too complex or
impractical can restrict people's spiritual experience,
Evangelical Press News Service said. "A church cannot make a
person worship, but it can facilitate a worship experience if it
is sensitive to the dynamics of the worship event and those who
are coming for a God-experience."
[..edited..]
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Re: Mystery Babylon
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:52:02 -0500
From: owner-bpr@philologos.org
Hi people...
Moza mentioned the book, "A Woman Rides the Beast" by Dave Hunt.
While out and about, I came across a site that has the entire sixth chapter
("A City on Seven Hills") of this book online. You may want to have a
look at it.
http://www.whidbey.net/~dcloud/otimothy/tl030003.htm
Wow... just checked the site further, and they also have chapter 7 online as well.
Dave Hunt was very generous. <g>
http://www.whidbey.net/~dcloud/fbns/beast07.htm
My goodness.... wanna look at chapter 9?
http://www.whidbey.net/~dcloud/fbns/beast09.htm
I'll go back and look some more....
Yep... here's chapter 12!
http://www.whidbey.net/~dcloud/fbns/beast12.htm
That should be enough eh?
That was exciting...
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Weekly irc chat
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:39:46 +0000
From: "Moza" <moza@butterfly.mv.com>
Hello everyone,
Is anyone interested in participating in a weekly chat (Monday
nights) on irc? If so, please contact me.
Thank you!
Moza
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Euro News
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:21:53 +0000
From: "Moza" <moza@butterfly.mv.com>
EU MINISTERS AND BANKERS MEET TO ASSESS ASIAN AND RUSSIAN CRISES: NO
THREAT TO EURO SEEN
Vigilance, not panic, should be Europe's response to the problems
afflicting financial systems around the world, government ministers
and central bankers of the European Union member states agreed during
an informal meeting over the weekend. At the opening of the two-day
gathering in Vienna Friday (September 26), EU Commission President
Jacques Santer told the assembled finance and economics ministers that
Europe's currencies remain "extremely stable" despite the turbulence
rocking international currency markets. That the troubles in Asia,
Latin America and Russia have not greatly affected Western European
currencies, he noted, suggests that the soon-to-arrive euro is already
regarded as a safe haven within the international monetary system. To
maintain that reputation, he stressed, the eleven EU states
participating in the currency union will have to pursue credible
fiscal and economic policies to ensure the euro's stability.
Asia's and Russia's economic troubles are no reason for panic in
Europe, Bundesbank President Hans Tietmeyer agreed, and pessimistic
talk of the possibility of a world-wide depression is, he stressed,
unfounded. Tietmeyer also joined with Santer and EU Currency
Commissioner Yves-Thibault de Silguy in warning the "euro-eleven"
against slackening their fiscal discipline at home. Given the
prospect of slower economic growth in Europe next year, Tietmeyer and
de Silguy argued, the euro states should take advantage of strong
growth now to reduce their high levels of public indebtedness.
Voicing their concern aboutthe economic situation in Russia, the EU
ministers and central bankers said they will continue with the
program of technical assistance in overhauling the Russian tax and
financial systems. They also will explore Russian projects that could
be funded through the European Investment Bank. Tietmeyer also
suggested the EU consider the possibility of helping Russia with its
balance of payments.
Looking ahead to the euro's January 1 debut, the economics and
finance ministers opened discussion in Vienna of an issue more
diplomatic than fiscal: who will be the voice of the euro? The
president of the European Central Bank should be an observer in the
deliberations of the International Monetary Fund and the G-7
industrial nations, the ministers agreed. They did not come to terms,
though, on who, if anyone, should speak generally in the name of the
participants in the currency union. France has proposed that larger
euro states - France, Germany or Italy - take turns representing the
euro region in international deliberations. The smaller participants
countered with a proposal to rotate responsibility for representing
the euro states, much as the presidency of the EU is rotated among
the 15 member states. Germany, according to press reports, has
suggested making do without a formal representative for the euro and
instead closely coordinating the fiscal policies and pronouncements
of the euro states. The European Commission is to put forward a
proposal to resolve this disagreement by December 1. De Silgy told
reporters in Vienna he is confident the matter will be settled in
time for the launch of the euro on New Year's day.
The Week in Germany
GIC-E@LISTSERV.DARTMOUTH.EDU
====================
Notice the numbers in the above--11 euro nations, G7.
See "The Mark of the Beast"
http://www.mv.com/ipusers/butterfly/rev/mark.htm
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Oct 3, 1998 TV Programs
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 08:56:26 +0000
From: "Moza" <moza@butterfly.mv.com>
8:00 pm eastern
C-SPAN - AMERICAN PERSPECTIVES - The series ``60
Minutes'' celebrates its 30th anniversary; discussion on
separation of church and state; practicing nonviolent
globalism.(CC)
HIST - INSIDE THE COLD WAR WITH DAVID FROST - Interviews
with heads of state, policy makers and strategists whose
philosophies shaped an era.(CC)(TVG)
9:00
TLC - CAUGHT IN THE ACT - High-tech surveillance helps
catch people in the process of committing
crimes.(CC)(TV14)
10:00
CNN - COLD WAR - "Comrades 1917-1945" - Wartime alliance;
the division of Europe; origins of the arms race.(CC)
--- BPR
BPR Web Site - http://philologos.org/bpr
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Seraphim vs Cherubim
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 11:18:58 -0500
From: owner-bpr@philologos.org
Hi everyone...
Regarding the four beasts that we first see in Revelation 4:6-8, are
they seraphims or cherubims? Neither? Both? Share your thoughts?
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Monday Night Chat
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 11:44:13 -0500
From: owner-bpr@philologos.org
Hi guys...
We will be holding an informal chat this coming Monday around 10:00pm
EST if anyone would care to join us. Just a friendly get-together.
Bring you lawn chair and diet coke. If all goes well, we may try to do this
each week. We'll let ya know.
Monday, Oct 5 at 10pm EST
irc2.christian-chat.net
join #bpr
ops: Moza and ro^n^ni
The only chat program I've ever used is mIRC, so I'm not familiar with the newer
ones that are available. However, should someone like to join us but not have
the know-how, contact Moza or me and we will try to help.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: The Scroll and Seven Seals
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:13:32 -0500
From: <owner-bpr@philologos.org>
Hi everyone...
Since we've been studying the four horsemen off and on, I
thought I would share some thoughts concerning the seals
themselves. Just some background material....
-------------
(Rev 6:1) "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the
seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the
four beasts saying, Come and see."
(Rev 5:5-7) "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not:
behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath
prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals
thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of
the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as
it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which
are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he
came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat
upon the throne."
The Lamb, more specifically the Passover Lamb, is the symbol
of Christ as the Sin-bearer of the world (John 1:29). Only the
Lamb is worthy to loosen the seals of the book.
Just as a side note: In contrast to the Lamb is Satan's typical
perverted imitation of Christ in the role of the false prophet who
is "another beast" [i.e. in addition to the anti-Christ] who has
"two horns like a lamb," but speaks "as a dragon" (Rev
13:11).
(Rev 5:1) "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the
throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with
seven seals."
Note the description of what John saw. He clearly described a
book with seven seals. An often overlooked point is
remembering that John *saw* seven seals. Since he saw them,
they must have been on the outside of the scroll, not on the
inside of the document as some suggest.
Some believe that the first seal has to be broken which opens
the scroll until the second seal is reached and then it too is
opened, etc. This is not the case with this particular scroll in my
opinion. The seals are not hidden from view. With the seals
being on the outside then, all seven must be opened before
the contents of the book are revealed.
Robert van Kampen owns one of the world's most extensive
private collections of biblical manuscripts, with many dating
back to the second century. He writes in his book, "The Sign,"
that of the many scrolls in his possession not one has a seal on
the inside. When sealed, the scrolls are all done so from the
outside. When one seal is present, it was usually placed there
by the author of the scroll. When more than one seal is present
it indicates a series or set of conditions that must be met before
the scroll can actually be opened. He also cites that the
Shrine of the Book located on the grounds of the Israel
Museum in Jerusalem has many scrolls that have multiple seals
placed on them, yet not one scroll has a seal on the inside.
(It has also been noted that Roman wills and legal contracts
were documents that often had seven seals on them like the
one John describes in Revelation.
For an alternate description and viewpoint of the scroll and its
seals, take a look at our file located at:
http://philologos.org/bpr/files/s-006-01.htm)
What is the scroll or book that John saw? The closest thing
we have to comparison is found in Ezekiel:
(Ezek 2:9-10) "And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent
unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein; And he spread it
before me; and it was written within and without: and there was
written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe."
As in Revelation, the scroll here has writing on both sides.
Apparently, scrolls of this nature were extremely rare in New
Testament times as typically the writing was done on one side
only. The writing side, called the "recto," was the side in which
the fibers of the document ran horizontally thus making writing
easier. The reverse side, the "verso" was usually for the title
or address of the document, and was only used when there
was inadequate space on the recto. In other words, a
document with writing on both sides indicates that the author
had much to say. Documents with writing on both sides are so
rare in fact that there is even a technical name for it, an
opisthograph.
As we see in Ezekiel, the scroll contained "lamentations, and
mourning, and woe." This is easily comparable to the scroll of
Revelation, in my opinion. The obvious difference between
the two scrolls, however, is that the one in Revelation is
sealed. We know that only the proper persons or officials can
open a sealed document, and in the case of multiple seals,
certain conditions must be met first. It may be significant to
remember that Roman wills were sealed in this fashion and
thus the document could not be opened until the death of the
person whose will it was could be attested. Interesting in view
of the fact that John describes the Lamb as having been slain
(Rev 5:6,9).
So we see by Christ's sacrificial death that He is worthy to
loose the seals. In addition, He also has the authority to open
the book as we see in the dual imagery of Christ as the Lion of
the tribe of Judah, the root of David. Here we have Christ's
Kingship displayed. His role of Judge is undisputed.
References: "The IVP Bible Background Commentary: NT,"
Craig S. Keener; "The Sign," Robert Van Kampen.
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: What's New and Improved?
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:42:49 -0500
From: <owner-bpr@philologos.org>
Bible Prophecy Research and Study List
Additions and updates made since Sept 19, 1998:
Vol 1, Number 3
Oct 3, 1998
-----------
> Added: The Church and Apostasy
http://www.ncinter.net/~ejt/apostasy.htm
This is a link to a web site belonging to a member of the BPR
list that has many interesting articles and documents pertaining
to the Catholic Church.
---------
> Added: The Four Horsemen
http://philologos.org/bpr/files/f-005-01.htm
A conversation between some members of the BPR mailing list
discussing the first four seals of Revelation.
---------
>Added: The Numbers 10, 11, and 12
http://philologos.org/bpr/files/n-008-01.htm
Some thoughts from E.W. Bullinger concerning numerology in
the Bible.
---------
> Updated: "Behold a White Horse"
http://philologos.org/bpr/files/w-006-01.htm
> Updated: "...silence in heaven..."
http://philologos.org/bpr/files/s-013-01.htm
> Updated: Heaven
http://philologos.org/bpr/files/h-002-01.htm
> Updated: Four and Twenty Elders
http://philologos.org/bpr/files/e-005-01.htm
----------
========
To: bpr-list@philologos.org (BPR Mailing List)
Subject: Syria and Turkey
From: bpr-list@philologos.org(BPR)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 20:28:41 -0400
From: Ed <ejt@ncinter.net>
Especially to any who believe the antichrist will come from this area
because of Grecian connection and Anticochus Epiphenes, this could be
significant in starting things "going" in the middle east.
Ed
10/3/98 Washington Post
DAMASCUS, Syria -- Syria responded yesterday to reports of Turkish troops
massing along the Syrian border by accusing Turkey of plotting with Israel
to undermine Syria. Prime Minister Mahmud Zubi warned that Syria would
stand up to any action by Turkey.
There has been increasing tension between Turkey and Syria over Turkish
charges that Syria is supporting Turkish Kurdish rebels, claims that Syria
denies. Syria also says the growing military and diplomatic ties between
Turkey and Israel destabilize the region.
Turkey's chief of general staff, Gen. Huseyin Kivriloglu, said "the current
situation is that of an undeclared war." But the air force commander, Gen.
Ilhan Kilic, said the military would step in only if the government failed
to find a solution.
Please be advised that this domain (Philologos.org) does not endorse 100 per cent any link contained herein. This forum is for the dissemination of pertinent information on an end-times biblical theme which includes many disturbing, unethical, immoral, etc. topics and should be viewed with a mature, discerning eye.